My mother annoys me

[Nine]

Comes with the Birth Certificate sweetie... all legit and government issued

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Think about it...you have bugged the HELL out of us for nine months... caused nothing but anguish and heartbreak for the next 7 years...spoken in monosyllables for the next 7 years and you think you can get away without paying a price??

Very very good point.

[tackattack]

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Just because your mother doesn't believe what you believe doesn't make it a lie. Just because you don't believe it to be true doesn't mean it is any less true to her. If she believed in fairies and it didn't affect her loving you or anything in the rest of her reality would you care? Could it be that you hate religion, or the religious enough to where simply holding that belief makes one unfit for society or useless?

I think the point many people make, Tack, is that a lack of critical thinking in one area tends to lead to a lack in others - sometimes dangerously. But there are many good examples of people who believe bullshit and are otherwise perfectly sane beings capable of leading healthy, fulfilling lives. And there are others who don't. [shrugs]

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I agree and as I don't know his mother, I was inadverdently asking whether, aside from her belief was she a good mother, hopefully in a way that might get him to question his mindset?

[Napoléon]

Just because your mother doesn't believe what you believe doesn't make it a lie.

My beliefs are irrelevant. It's hers that I care about and she hasn't come to her train of thought by actual thinking.

Just because you don't believe it to be true doesn't mean it is any less true to her.

It's not even a question of truth, it's a question of blindly defending something without good reason. She doesn't seriously believe in talking snakes and living inside of whales. But for some reason she wants to defend it, as though these stories have any integrity or moral value (and I'm not going to turn this into a debate about whether the bible has good morals or not, because it's not debatable, it just doesn't).

If she believed in fairies and it didn't affect her loving you or anything in the rest of her reality would you care?

Umm yes, because she'd be believing in fairies. That would make her crazy. My mother isn't crazy.

Could it be that you hate religion

Yes. I do hate religion. I hate that it forces clever and morally good people to defend a bunch of bullshit and evil blindly.

or the religious

Yes they piss me off too.

enough to where simply holding that belief makes one unfit for society or useless?

It's not about society or about having some sort of use. It's about my Mother. I care that my mother's view of the world is wrong. I care that she limits herself mentally due to the brainwashing power of religion.

Is that irrational? If it is then I guess I'm irrational.

[Nine]

It's not about society or about having some sort of use. It's about my Mother. I care that my mother's view of the world is wrong. I care that she limits herself mentally due to the brainwashing power of religion.

Is that irrational? If it is then I guess I'm irrational.

Very well said mate. It would help people to see the massive issues of religion if there weren't influential people saying that its wrong to think about and question god..

[Strongbad]

Like mature adults? You seem to be assuming she doesn't have her reasons. As long as she isn't forcing it down my throat and it doesn't interfere with our daily lives, I don't give a shit if she believes in god. If it makes her happy, that makes me happy.

Would you say there's a good reason to believe?

I'd say that there is a very good reason that his wife believes what she does, just like Napolean's mom (and my wife too, btw), and it has nothing to do with the validity of her beliefs. She, like every other Christian that I've ever met or corresponded with (including every Christian on this forum, especially the ones that claim to be "former atheists") was indoctrinated as a child. It is almost impossible for her to not carry on believing what she was taught before she reached the age of reason. People in authority when she was a child instructed her that the Christian god is real, the Bible is God's word, hell is a real place to be feared, Satan is real, sin is real, etc, etc. It is a statistical fact that the vast majority of people that were indoctrinated as children have an extremely difficult time escaping the clutches of their indoctrination, and it is almost pointless to try to deprogram them.

[tackattack]

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Just because your mother doesn't believe what you believe doesn't make it a lie.

My beliefs are irrelevant. It's hers that I care about and she hasn't come to her train of thought by actual thinking.

Just because you don't believe it to be true doesn't mean it is any less true to her.

It's not even a question of truth, it's a question of blindly defending something without good reason. She doesn't seriously believe in talking snakes and living inside of whales. But for some reason she wants to defend it, as though these stories have any integrity or moral value (and I'm not going to turn this into a debate about whether the bible has good morals or not, because it's not debatable, it just doesn't).

If she believed in fairies and it didn't affect her loving you or anything in the rest of her reality would you care?

Umm yes, because she'd be believing in fairies. That would make her crazy. My mother isn't crazy.

Could it be that you hate religion

Yes. I do hate religion. I hate that it forces clever and morally good people to defend a bunch of bullshit and evil blindly.

or the religious

Yes they piss me off too.

enough to where simply holding that belief makes one unfit for society or useless?

It's not about society or about having some sort of use. It's about my Mother. I care that my mother's view of the world is wrong. I care that she limits herself mentally due to the brainwashing power of religion.

Is that irrational? If it is then I guess I'm irrational.

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If she hasn't come to her beliefs by actual thought then by definition aren't sound rational beliefs. I'm glad she doesn't seriously believe in talking snakes and living inside of whales. She may have some reason she wants to defend it that you don't see. I defend it because I feel it is a moral adn usefull applicable improvement to my life. You obviously don't agree, but your impass to even entertain the idea, might be the crux of the issue with her if she has similar reasons. Caring about your mother is not irrational, it's commendable in today's society. Perhaps I'm not fully grasping what you mean by "blindly defending". Could you explain that a little better for me please. How is she limiting herself mentally? How is she brainwashed any more than the average person?

[KichigaiNeko]

I think it is worse than trying to give up smoking tobacco...religion is insidious and it takes great pain to be free of it.

Many people don't want to go through the pain?

[LastPoet]

I've made an analogy and said it many times, based on anecdotal evidence, sure, but I think its pretty much valid:

When I was addicted to heroin, I often thought about how life would not be as joyous and/or worth living without the 'feeling good' that heroin gave me, while trying to find reasons to not quit drugs. I had the hardest of times quitting it, and for like 2 years after, I struggled to find purpose and joy in life without them. This is what I see in many religious people and from my own deconvertion, I can say the feeling is quite similar.

So, religion is like a drug addiction, you find solace in that belief that was put in your mind since childhood, because you can't really see how can one live life without god and the queezy feeling that belief gives you. But as in drugs, you can't be convinced or forced by others to quit religion, you have to get there yourself, struggle with it a bit, yes, but you have to do it yourself.

Now, 12 years after stopping drugs and 17 years after I quit religion, I laugh on how silly I was.

[tackattack]

I personally can live my life just fine and moral without religion and God. If religion is out of fear or just because it feels good, I agree it like a drug addiction and just as destructive. However if you find religion though experimentation, observation and rational thinking, it's just like any other belief; healthy and sound. I was taught math since childhood, does that make it an irrational or unhealthy belief? Would you compare a belief in chemistry or love of soccer to drug addiction? I never got a queezy feeling with or without religion, perhaps some pepto?

[Napoléon]

If she hasn't come to her beliefs by actual thought then by definition aren't sound rational beliefs. I'm glad she doesn't seriously believe in talking snakes and living inside of whales. She may have some reason she wants to defend it that you don't see. I defend it because I feel it is a moral adn usefull applicable improvement to my life. You obviously don't agree, but your impass to even entertain the idea, might be the crux of the issue with her if she has similar reasons. Caring about your mother is not irrational, it's commendable in today's society. Perhaps I'm not fully grasping what you mean by "blindly defending". Could you explain that a little better for me please. How is she limiting herself mentally? How is she brainwashed any more than the average person?

Okay, I'm not gonna pretend I know exactly what's going on in my mothers head. BUT, it is pretty clear to me, that for some reason, she feels the need to get offended whenever I make a simple point about Christianity. For instance, I said something off the cuff about how priests like to touch little boys. She gets offended. She tuts and pulls some snarly face like I've just insulted her. It's a fact though, Catholic priests HAVE touched little boys. But why if you don't go to church every sunday, if you don't even pray, would you get offended by something like that?

I'm 99% sure my mom doesn't REALLY believe in a Christian god. But she will always get offended if you poke fun at it.

This to me shows she is brainwashed into feeling some sort of sympathy with it. How can you feel sympathy with an organisation that has throughout the ages committed an uncountable amount of atrocities? This to me shows she doesn't even think about it when she gets offended.