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How Can Christians Still Believe??
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 (April 2, 2012 at 8:19 am)YahwehIsTheWay Wrote: Two options: Why not? I believe that God inspired the prophets and other writers, but they weren't forced. Relationship with God is based on free will. God shows himself to people, while they experience that revelation on different ways. That's what the Bible is: a book that shows how different people on different ways saw God, in time completely different than ours. That's why i said that the Bible is divine and human at the same time. 
Is this the same Free Will that sends you to hell, if your will is not God's will, even if its not morally bad to do so?
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside? The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm RE: How Can Christians Still Believe??
April 2, 2012 at 9:12 am
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2012 at 9:17 am by BeeDeePee.)
God doesn't send you to hell, because hell is not a place, but a state of being. It is a state of person that is self-centered, so he/she can not love. As Sartre said, "hell is other people". So, torturing that people "in" hell feel is not something that is made by God. It is a consequence of their relationship to others.
I don't accept the "juridical concept", where the God is a Heavenly Tyrant that punishes us(who are his slaves) if we do not listen him and perform his commandments. By incarnation, Christ made us equal with him. So, we are not slaves and subordinate to God, but now we have opportunity to partake in his own life, what is called theosis. (April 2, 2012 at 9:12 am)BeeDeePee Wrote: God doesn't send you to hell, because hell is not a place, but a state of being. It is a state of person that is self-centered, so he/she can not love. As Sartre said, "hell is other people". How does that make sense in terms of phrases like "gates of hell", "hell fire" quoted in the bible. Secondly, is this concept consistent with the idea that Jesus can be rejected entirely and yet you can love> I'm pretty sure I know the answer to both of these but I'd rather be clear on the version of the story you understand. Quote:I don't accept the "juridical concept", where the God is a Heavenly Tyrant that punishes us(who are his slaves) if we do not listen him and perform his commandments. By incarnation, Christ made us equal with him. So, we are not slaves and subordinates to God, but now we have opportunity to partake in life of God, what is called theosis. So if we are not slaves, we are free to choose not to believe in something that offers no credible evidence for existence. Yes? We are free to practice our sexuality as comes naturally. Yes? Or is "Free Will" about to get tricky on us?
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside? The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm RE: How Can Christians Still Believe??
April 2, 2012 at 9:31 am
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2012 at 9:32 am by BeeDeePee.)
(April 2, 2012 at 9:21 am)NoMoreFaith Wrote: How does that make sense in terms of phrases like "gates of hell", "hell fire" quoted in the bible.It is metaphorical description. Quote:Secondly, is this concept consistent with the idea that Jesus can be rejected entirely and yet you can loveIf you love, you accept Jesus, even if you are not aware of that. So, I believe that atheist won't go to hell... some of them will(as some of declared believers). Quote:So if we are not slaves, we are free to choose not to believe in something that offers no credible evidence for existence. Yes?You are free to do everything what you think that is good, but you will take responsibility for that. RE: How Can Christians Still Believe??
April 2, 2012 at 9:33 am
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2012 at 9:39 am by NoMoreFaith.)
(April 2, 2012 at 9:31 am)BeeDeePee Wrote: You are free to do everything what you think that is good, but you will take responsibility for that. Meaning what exactly? This is a little vague. What happens if you happen to be Gay for instance. What responsibility do they accept by having a loving relationship with someone of the same sex.
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside? The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm  (April 2, 2012 at 9:31 am)BeeDeePee Wrote: If you love, you accept Jesus, even if you are not aware of that. This doesn't even make sense? What do you mean by "accept Jesus"? Many people can go through life without even hearing the word "Jesus", much less associating it with a person. How do you accept something you don't know about? And how do you "accept Jesus" unconsciously when you have consciously and explicitly rejected him?  (April 2, 2012 at 8:53 am)BeeDeePee Wrote: Why not? If the Bible is part human and part Divine, how do you propose we should tell which is which? Is the prohibition against homosexuality just human prejudice or divine will? Is the story of Genesis an account of what happened or just a fanciful tale by primitive people? Is the story of Jesus a real biography or was he just a man who was only said to have performed miracles? How can we know the answers to any of these questions if we admit the only resource we have is an unreliable source of information? Also, what is the purpose of divine revelation if the revelation couldn't be clear? Sending prophets a message is moot if the message isn't properly conveyed. Finally, the dangers of a false positive on divine revelation is such that the careful side is to ignore the claim rather than follow it. That's why I'm a True Christian ™ and believe ALL of the Bible, including the parts about stoning disobedient children and beating slaves. You can't treat divine revelation like a buffet table. Otherwise, you may as well drop the pretense and just create your own religion.
"You don't need facts when you got Jesus." -Pastor Deacon Fred, Landover Baptist Church
™: True Christian is a Trademark of the Landover Baptist Church. I have no affiliation with this fine group of True Christians ™ because I can't afford their tithing requirements but would like to be. Maybe someday the Lord will bless me with enough riches that I am able to. And for the lovers of Poe, here's your winking smiley: 
 RE: How Can Christians Still Believe??
April 2, 2012 at 12:28 pm
(This post was last modified: April 2, 2012 at 12:29 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(April 2, 2012 at 9:41 am)genkaus Wrote:(April 2, 2012 at 9:31 am)BeeDeePee Wrote: If you love, you accept Jesus, even if you are not aware of that. As a theological idea I think he means that God is not concerned with semantics. Since Christ is the Truth, anyone who believes in ultimate truth is accepting Christ by another name. |
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