GMO's and intellectual property rights.

[kılıç_mehmet]

It has come to my attention that more renewed attempts to allow genetically modified seeds are trying to be legalized in my country once more. The public outcry on the last modifications regarding the laws on this subject has allowed imported GMO seeds to stay away from our earth, however, international corporations are actively pushing for it, not just in my country, but in many others to have their own seeds imported, and local producers crippled.

Now, I do not know how safe the consumption of the products that are grown from these seeds are, as I've been hearing various things around where such products have been known to cause health problems, and even resulted to deaths, even though indirectly.
Although these must be taken into consideration, these are not my primary concern.
Private organisations that produce such seeds are, in my opinion, quite the most lethal weapons in the world that we might have witnessed.

I think you might be guessing where I'm taking this.
The seeds, as you know, are subject to intellectual property laws.
As such, these seeds cannot be grown by any other than the main supplier, legally, at least. But the main supplier cannot actively investigate each and every farmer who uses their seed if they are not fucking them over by using some of the seeds of their yield of the year, so they put in a mechanism into the genes that render the seeds infertile, meaning, they do not produce any seeds from which further crops can be grown.

This is not only a blow to local variants of the crop, along with the traditional growers of the crop, it's a blow to the whole agriculture of the specific country in which these seeds are being spread.
How is this done?
For example, let's say that the seeds of a specific crop in a country are regulated by a specific arm of the government that deals with agriculture.
This arm also produces known, tested and verified variants of the crop, along with distributing them to the farmers, for small prices.
Then, privatisation sets in. Well, the international producers will likely seek to eliminate the local market. After taking over smaller manufacturers, and driving some out of business, who will be there to oppose them? With farmers already in their grasp, as they depend on the seeds that have the gene defect, they also have the country in their grasp, as people cannot survive without food.
If this country would face any kind of an international blockade, it would most certainly be ruined and left for dead in a matter of years.
This is what I'm talking about people. You do not need to do anything. No soldiers, no nukes, no nothing. Just leave them to starve.

What are your opinions?

[The Grand Nudger]

Most crops grown for serious commercial enterprise in the developed world are already infertile (intentionally so, I'll add, but not for the reasons you might imagine). There are no known health risks to gmo food approved for human consumption in this country (nor are there any non GMO crops in existence, anywhere in the world). If the local producer cannot compete with the retail wholesaler then what? Subsidize his inefficiency? Maybe the local producer should try a different market, or a different marketing strategy. These crops have significantly increased yields, resistance, and decreased need for inputs such as pesticide or fertilizer. They are also cheaper, and more profitable for the producer (or they wouldn't use them). All of this equates to more affordable and reliable food for the end consumer, you.



(Who here thinks that high level of technical proficiency is not required to be a commercial grower? Who thinks that the gains in science are lost on the farmer? Why aren't you producing food then, if it is so simple, so easy, and so automatic? Lets not let the flannel and the chewing straw fool anyone {or whatever the steroetype is where you are}, these people are smart, competent, capable, important, and they make consistently good decisions. If they didn't, you'd be starving.)

[Minimalist]

however, international corporations are actively pushing for it,

That's what international corporations do.


Over here it is called the "invisible hand of the market."


(What the invisible hand is doing is bribing the decision makers.)

[The Grand Nudger]

That's the rub, what private corporations do with crops and knowledge that are almost always the product of publicly funded research is oftentimes garbage. It isn't the GMO crops that are the problem. Just another issue where shady corporations or shady corporate policies muddle what should be a fairly cut and dry issue. GMO is the way forward, private control of GMO organisms is not. They didn't develop the crops on their own dime, they didn't develop the process on their own dime, they don't deserve any measure of control to make their own dime.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Most crops grown for serious commercial enterprise in the developed world are already infertile.

Well, that is what I just said.

There are no known health risks to gmo food approved for human consumption in this country (nor are there any non GMO crops in existence, anywhere in the world).

The EU does not allow the growing of GMO crops as far as I'm concerned.

If the local producer cannot compete with the retail wholesaler then what? Subsidize his inefficiency? Maybe the local producer should try a different market, or a different marketing strategy.

For now, the production and selling of GMO seeds and products are illegal in my country.
The reason is to protect local farmers and local crop varieties.
It really does not matter if the local producer puts an emphasis on selling "organic food", as it's not organic, they still do use inorganic fertilizers and pesticides. IF they don't, it's not going to be cheap.

These crops have significantly increased yields, resistance, and decreased need for inputs such as pesticide or fertilizer.

But these come with in built protection mechanisms. We'll be dependent on foreign corporations for our food.

They are also cheaper, and more profitable for the producer (or they wouldn't use them). All of this equates to more affordable and reliable food for the end consumer, you.

Do you have an idea for how much money a single kilogram of tomato seeds go for?
And they have to do this each and every year. The only places where these seeds are used are the US, and countries like China. And China obviously helps their farmers with extra funds to make it more affordable for them.
And the producers in the US do not have to fear anything either. They do not import the seeds from somewhere, they buy them in their own country, where they're produced.
We've been growing our own food for years, and we know where to find affordable and reliable food, unlike the consumers in America, we set up bazaars, where we buy the food directly from the producers, rather from grocery shops or supermarkets. The thing is, that we do not have any qualms about the quality and taste of our food.
However, what I'm speaking of is no tinfoil theory. I'm talking about an entire nation's dependence on foreign seed producers. It really does not matter if my tomatoes can survive a week longer in the refrigrator or not, if I'm not going to survive a blockade in the future.

(Who here thinks that high level of technical proficiency is not required to be a commercial grower? Who thinks that the gains in science are lost on the farmer? Why aren't you producing food then, if it is so simple, so easy, and so automatic?)

I do not oppose mechanisation, nor do I oppose the usage of fertilizers, nor pesticides. The fact is that the prospect of our agriculture being in the hands of foreign corporations is a threat enough.

[The Grand Nudger]

No, Mehm, I'm referring to "non-GMO" crops..they are also infertile, by design. The EU does not allow our current run of GMO crops, but they're perfectly okay with all the rest of our GMO crops (read: every crop in existence). The reason GMO crops are illegal in your country has nothing to do with protecting local farmers, who would turn more profits and have a better quality of life if they used GMO, be less naive. Chances are you already depend on foreign corporations heavily for your food, just as we do here in the US, even though we are a net exporter of food. Yes, Mehm, I do, depends on the manufacturer....I'm a farmer.... LOL, wow, just wow. We buy most of our seedstock from elsewhere, it's cheaper to grow to seed in third world countries, our own seeds would be too expensive. Some specialty brands (like drought resistant) are exclusively from places like :gasp: Israel. Where seeds are produced for commercial enterprise is a function of markets, which supersede politics in almost every case. You could try to grow only local varieties, but then you'd be back to the "hungry gap". A large portion of the worlds diet, for example, is native to the US, Central, and S. America. Things you're probably familiar with, and things you wouldn't even imagine, like strawberries.

[Minimalist]

The fact is that the prospect of our agriculture being in the hands of foreign corporations is a threat enough.

But corporations love you, Mehmet. They are like gods to the true believers in unregulated business.

[The Grand Nudger]

Turkic corporations love Mehmet, the rest are out to get him. Tinfoil hat engaged.

[kılıç_mehmet]

No, Mehm, I'm referring to "non-GMO" crops..they are also infertile, by design. The EU does not allow our current run of GMO crops, but they're perfectly okay with all the rest of our GMO crops (read: every crop in existence). The reason GMO crops are illegal in your country has nothing to do with protecting local farmers, who would turn more profits and have a better quality of life if they used GMO, be less naive. Chances are you already depend on foreign corporations heavily for your food, just as we do here in the US, even though we are a net exporter of food. Yes, Mehm, I do, depends on the manufacturer....I'm a farmer.... LOL, wow, just wow. We buy most of our seedstock from elsewhere, it's cheaper to grow to seed in third world countries, our own seeds would be too expensive. Some specialty brands (like drought resistant) are exclusively from places like :gasp: Israel. Where seeds are produced for commercial enterprise is a function of markets, which supersede politics in almost every case. You could try to grow only local varieties, but then you'd be back to the "hungry gap". A large portion of the worlds diet, for example, is native to the US, Central, and S. America. Things you're probably familiar with, and things you wouldn't even imagine, like strawberries.

Well, Turkey is one of the countries which can supply itself by only depending on the own food that it grows.
We do not need to buy foodstuff from the outside, except for things that do not grow in Turkey, like cocoa and coffee, but besides that, we grow our own tobacco, tea, wheat, and have our own animals, and other crops, local ones with which I'm very well acquainted with.
Like for example, the tomatoes of the Ayash belde of Ankara are famous, they are not as resilient as most other tomatoes maybe, but they taste a lot more better than greenhouse tomatoes, that's for sure, and any grower can simply use the seeds from their own tomatoes to grow the next generation of crops.

Nearly all of our provinces have something "specific" to them, like for example, hazelnuts, watermelons, and etc. are all grown in a certain province, mostly, and historically.
Now, why would we need to use the infertie seeds from some other corporations to grow our foodstuff with?
Besides, we were never *hungry* to be honest. Yes, there are poor people, but we do not suffer from any kind of famine or hunger, even when we faced a few blockades back in the good old days...

Turkic corporations love Mehmet, the rest are out to get him. Tinfoil hat engaged.

Say what you will. Call me tinfoil hat man. However, it's not a conspiracy, these are all documented, and well known.

[The Grand Nudger]

As are we, but again, it's cheaper to buy a majority of our produce from other countries, in addition to being more stable when certain crops are out of season. Affordable food is important. I'd be willing to bet that you actually can't tell the difference between an heirloom and a greenhouse tomato (I'd be willing to bet on this because mounds of studies have been done, and people can't actually tell). The differences between this or that tomato that can be noticed are largely based on post harvest handling and logistics. We accept a less "tasty" tomato for a more reliable and affordable tomato. Some people like to grow their own though, or shop for specific brands, or at specialty stores. All perfectly understandable, but when it comes to brass tacks, whatever they think they taste is likely the product of their imagination (or whatever they think they taste has so far eluded demonstration in a controlled test, even so far as to realize that intentionally mis-labeling tomatoes gives false positives). You would use the infertile seeds of "other" corporations because they are more resistant to disease, require less input, and produce higher yields. All of this directly translates to an increased quality of life for every single human being in the chain of production and consumption. You want your mythical Turan? Turn Turkey into an agricultural powerhouse, place all of your little Turan cultists at the forefront of that. People will be clamoring for your advice anywhere you care to give it. How do you think the U.S. got where it is? Or, you could imagine that somehow "your" seeds are better, because they're "yours". Watermelons are from South Africa. Tomatoes are from S. America. Wheat is from the Levant and Ethiopia. Tobacco is from the Americas. Tea is from SE Asia.

So, tell me again how self sufficient your ag is? Enjoy your hazelnuts and your pulse.
(and guess what, your hazelnuts were non-starters, they had to bring in foreign ringers to get a crop, the only good thing yours have are roots....and the fruiting bits...largely come from N. American cultivars)