Some stuff in Islam that i don't get

[sharpguy88]

No, it doesn't necessarily have to say "mina" (or "among") in every verse to make the point that the Quran is not talking about all Jews. You have to get this information by reading the previous verses as well as the later verses that are found in the same chapter. Interpreting a verse by just looking at the verse itself and ignoring what is written before it and after it is quite likely to give you an improper understanding of the verse. Now, that being said, there are indeed several verses in the Quran which say good things Christians and Jews (who are known as ahl-ul-kitab). For example, the Quran mentions that "among them there are some" who are pious and righteous people, who command what is right and forbid what is wrong, and try to excel each other in acts of charity and goodness. These are amongst the people who are assured that whatever good they will do will not be denied by Allah and that they will be rewarded for their actions.

Thanks Rayaan you are helping me in trying to prove my point... the surah you chose was "revealed" in the first year in Al-medina it was when the prophet was trying to convert the Jews to Islam...meaning POLITICS.

If a non-Muslim tribe did break a treaty, then that's the only time when wars and executions were allowed for the Muslims. And more importantly, the only reason that such wars were allowed was for the purpose of self-defense.

so you are saying that executing every single man and enslaving their women and children in the tribe is OK even if it's the fault of a few men? ... they surrendered and you know that, that's not self defense.

[The Grand Nudger]

NP Ray. Here's another one, would it be fair to say that "among them there are some" with reference to muslims? You know, as in some, not to be confused with most, or all, but more than a few. Among muslims there are some who are pious and righteous people, who command what is right and forbid what is wrong. It might not sound like a compliment to those whom the statement refers to, wouldn't you agree? You seem like a tolerant person, good head on your shoulders, but you're going to have a hard time selling the authors of the Quran as tolerant people, with a good head on their shoulders. If it seems like they really didn't care much for the jews (or anyone else really), it's probably because they didn't. Doesn't mean you aren't free to interpret this or that verse however you like, of course.

[fr0d0]

I didn't understand what you meant by me agreeing with the "fundamentalist fatherland types." Sorry, but I didn't even understand the point of your reply.

I said quite plainly that you didn't agree with such fundamentalists as far as I recall. You picking a fight with me that you do actually side with such fundies is what's confusing.

[fanthor]

so you are saying that executing every single man and enslaving their women and children in the tribe is OK even if it's the fault of a few men? ... they surrendered and you know that, that's not self defense.

From what i remember, of the stories from both muslim and western views..

The qurayza fate have already been decided, even before the surrender..
It was only due to tactical strategy that the qurayza never actually did physically betray, the meccan army lost their morale before agreements could be made(delayed by spreading rumors from muslim spies).

blablablablabla, most scholars specializing in that period sees no difference in attitude of the muslims, some would even call the muslims stupid if they didn't punish the qurayza in some way, as the muslims had just installed a new tribal treaty with every tribes in arabia, leaving the qurayza would effectively destroy said treaty.

ps : if you just killed all the men in a tribe, what would you do with the women and children? rule :
1) Your only substantial source of income would be loot and gifts.
2) Your community has already banned marrying women with no limit, and no declaring foster sons of your own

There are so many ways that the muslims could have done worse with the women and children.. they could sell them(which they didn't, all of them was given to a former jewish leader), they could leave them(which they probably won't last for 2weeks, seeing as no tribes in the area can support them)

also note that under muslim law(and jews), slaves are to be treated almost the same as the master, they wear the same clothes you do, eat the same type of food as you do, etc2, the only thing that differs them from free humans, is, they're not free. Hell, in some periods, being slaves means you are higher than the normal folks(mamluks, jannisaries).