New Atheism in the UK

[mannaka]

I appreciate what you're saying, but looking back at the survey with particular attention to the first two pages;

54% of people surveyed labeled themselves Christian.
Only 1% strictly believed in the religion according to Q3.

If the survey is a fair sample of the UK, then this would imply that only 0.54% of Christians are strictly religious. As a comparative, it is said that 1% of the UK is illiterate.*

Perhaps there are other pedestals in the UK we should be corroding?

*Granted - I didn't look at other religions but (1) Christianity is the main religion of ridicule and (2) I doubt the percentage would rise very considerably (maybe 1-4% maximum?)

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To continue the caravan analogy (before it starts to get a bit silly) your aim is to come to a complete stop, so you must keep breaking. Inappropriately hard breaking would be like having a confrontational Hitchenesque debate with your elderly aunt at a family Christening. Not breaking enough would be like . . . er . . . I think that's enough of this analogy.

Regards

Grimesy

Exactly! Proportionate breaking I'd call it.

It is of my opinion however that New Atheist views are the equivalent "jerkily hard breaking" in this analogy.

[NoMoreFaith]

To continue the caravan analogy (before it starts to get a bit silly) your aim is to come to a complete stop, so you must keep breaking. Inappropriately hard breaking would be like having a confrontational Hitchenesque debate with your elderly aunt at a family Christening. Not breaking enough would be like . . . er . . . I think that's enough of this analogy.

Regards

Grimesy

Don't stop, it works fine. In small scale, rampant braking is excessive to means, and inappropriate. Got it in one.
When you are still in the process of gradually reducing speed, it is equally inappropriate to stop braking.

Exactly! Proportionate breaking I'd call it.

It is of my opinion however that New Atheist views are the equivalent "jerkily hard breaking" in this analogy.

Your initial position was that there was a decline in the opening post, not a substantive drop.
Am I to understand your definition of decline is a sudden crashing drop?

If that were the case I'd agree that militant atheism is overkill. However, it is demonstrably a gradual decline, so I think we've got the balance right so far. People need time to adjust to new ways of thinking.

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Perhaps there are other pedestals in the UK we should be corroding?

Such as? Religion has been on a pedestal where you must not criticise or point out the flaws because its 'offensive' to do so.

This concept of 'New Atheism' is largely linked to the TED talk Dawkins gave about a decade ago where he called upon atheists to stop allowing religion to take this position of being immune from criticism, and to actively point out the problems and flaws as you would with ANY other irrational belief.

I absolutely agree with you. Any position on a pedestal that demands respect without earning it, that demands you simply accept it without questioning SHOULD be challenged.

Last I checked, illiteracy was not on a pedestal that you shouldn't try and make people more literate...

So whats your point?

EDIT: The study looked at reasons why they identified themselves as Christian, being "born into it", or "baptised" but with little in common with the belief structure itself. The point was that you can't claim this is a christian nation merely on the tag people put on themselves.
I'm reminded of a saying when learning about contract law; A contract is what it is, not what it says it is.

[mannaka]

Ultimately, my view is that the strict belief in religion, and in particular Christianity, has practically come to the end of its decline. I like to think that the statistics I previously divulged, substantiates this. It does not seem like you agree with this though.

However I think we both agree that the views of New Atheism are overkill in the UK as it stands. I'd like to hear the opinions of others who disagree with this though (I know there's plenty out there!).

It is of my opinion that (whilst not necessarily on a pedestal) issues with the justice, financial and political system (the House of Lords...), alongside social issues such as racism and class are all areas that are much, much more worthwhile than pro-active New Atheism which is why I posed the initial question.

[Nine]

I find faults with this study.

1,136 Is quite a small sample considering there are over 62million people in the UK. I don't entirely trust the responses. It was done face to face and people may have been embarrassed and not answered truthfully. Unless they did more study's with similar results I wouldn't entirely trust it.

As far as people not being strictly religious is irrelevant. As long as they are saying that they are christian it gives more power to the church who can then go forward saying they are backed by 70% of the population.

Ive never heard of New atheism to be honest but as far as more important issues. Just because something else is more important doesn't mean you should ignore everything else. I would dread the day people stopped standing up to religion and its potential dangers.

[mannaka]

With regards to survey validity and sampling; I firstly trust that the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science have conducted their survey rigorously and in a fair and scientific manner. Secondly, their sample size is quite reasonable: see this (or google for more information).

I think that as we're collectively at the point in the UK where we do not care much for strict religion, I struggle to envision a situation where it suddenly comes to prominence in our lives.

[NoMoreFaith]

I think that as we're collectively at the point in the UK where we do not care much for strict religion, I struggle to envision a situation where it suddenly comes to prominence in our lives.

I would argue that we do not care much for interference with our daily lives rather than the religion itself. Although that is something I wouldn't mind seeing, its not a priority.

[mannaka]

I would argue that we do not care much for interference with our daily lives rather than the religion itself. Although that is something I wouldn't mind seeing, its not a priority.

To an extent for sure. In fact we're the butt of many European jokes due to our polite tolerance (telling the waiter the foods nice when we really think otherwise etc.). In a way it's part of our identity as a nation.

Thanks NoMoreFaith you've provided for some interesting debate.
Is there anyone else with a view on the initial question? (I'm beginning to wonder if I posted this in the wrong forum!)

[NoMoreFaith]

Thats twice now you've politely told me to fuck off and let someone else talk.



In the interests of not being egregious *zip*

[jason56]

NEVER underestimate the role of tradition in religion - It's the cornerstone . All those people who grow up with the conditions for atheism but keep a God, just in case, are testament to the success of religion. It's become deep-rooted in our brains. Like a cold that's hard to shift.

That's why we need this website.

[mannaka]

NEVER underestimate the role of tradition in religion - It's the cornerstone . All those people who grow up with the conditions for atheism but keep a God, just in case, are testament to the success of religion. It's become deep-rooted in our brains. Like a cold that's hard to shift.

That's why we need this website.

Sorry jason56, could you explain how your view is related to the initial question?