The Magic of Atheism?

[KichigaiNeko]

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully

ALOT like many males I have known over the decades Yep, this "biblical quranic" misanthrope embodies EVERYTHING bad of males globally. Including the "buba-dick" phobia

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[Zen Badger]

Here is a little help from a fellow UKian (UKite) Richard Dawkins...

The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully

Funny that, Jealousy is a sin(Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.Galatians5;26 and "for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?Corinthians 3;3") yet .......

for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God” (Exodus 20:4-5).

[KichigaiNeko]

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politic...1vaou.html

THIS is your fucking god at work. This is the uselessness of your fucking god...READ the pain your fucking deity is inflicting on ordinary blameless people EVERY FUCKING DAY

Magic of atheism would allow this person to END their suffering...but not the religious Oh No ...THEY want to see this person suffer so that they can feel "privileged" not to have to go through the same thing ...BUT

When it is THEIR turn?? Let's see you squirm!

[Phil]

Funny that, Jealousy is a sin(Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.Galatians5;26 and "for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?") yet .......

for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God” (Exodus 20:4-5).

Let's put that in proper perspective shall we?

1 John 4:8

God is love

1 Corinthians 13:4

Love is not jealous

Exodus 20:4-5

I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God

Bible says there is no god, film at 11.

I feel like the atheist Ray Comfort so I will say checkmate Christians

[KichigaiNeko]

They are nothing but petulant two year olds... and like ALL two year olds ...

A short sharp shock and an intolerance for their behaviour is what is called for

[genkaus]

I suppose I should start some kind of thread to see how things will go. Here's something that bothers me.

There is the dimension of space, it’s three dimensional, and then there is the dimension of time. But then there are the forces of nature: gravity, electromagnetism, the weak and strong interaction forces.

On the track, so far.

There’s only two ways to look at this. One is atheistic and suggests that for no reason at all the entire universe popped into existence out of nothing with these particular properties in place for no reason. The only problem with that is that these four fundamental forces were needed before the universe existed. They were needed for the universe to have ever come into existence to begin with. They had to exist prior to it.

And... off the rails.

Firstly, no atheist claims that. Theists do. Theists are the one who claim that the universe popped into existence form nothing. You do understand what "creation ex nihilo" means, right?

Secondly, those fundamental forces are properties of the physical universe. Explain how it could possibly exist prior to that?

Atheists would have us return to ignorance.

Acknowledged ignorance is better than false knowledge,

They would say that this is simply unknowable, and it’s unknowable because God can’t possibly exist, even though the universe and its fundamental forces are inconceivable apart from an intelligent designer bringing it into existence.

Stop projecting. Just because you theists think that you cannot fully comprehend god, don't think we say that same about anything. Origins of the universe are not unknowable, simply unknown. Acceptance of that ignorance is what would lead us to knowledge.

If God is not there, then the universe is magic. It came into existence without the fundamental forces in place, either separately or as a grand unified force. The forces would have had to come after—even though they were needed before. That's magical thinking.

Theists who understand even a little about cosmology are forced to believe in God, because that is the only non-magical explanation. A Divine Designer who existed prior to the universe is simply more plausible than the alternative.

That's my take on things--unless you know a better way.

Hold on.



So, making something out of nothing with everything in place is "not magic" and more plausible? This needs one more.

[Phil]

There is the dimension of space, it’s three dimensional, and then there is the dimension of time. But then there are the forces of nature: gravity, electromagnetism, the weak and strong interaction forces.

On the track, so far.

No it isn't. Space is not a separate and distinct entity different from time. It is 4D spacetime. But to be fair it was on track in the 19th century but we are in the 21st.

[Eyem4Christ]

Atheists don't believe in him so why should we define him? Read how he is defined in your stupid bible yourself.

Zen Badger said the Christian God didn't exist. So, he should be able to say what it is he is saying doesn't exist. You apprently have no idea either. But that's not going to stop you from trying to impress me with your intelligence in quantum mechanics, is it?

It relies on metaphysical intuition as its basis. If you are willing to believe in a metaphysical God, you don't see this as a problem, even if logic dictates otherwise.

I just want to know how the existence of God contradicts logic.

You clearly did not read the earlier arguments. This is a false dichotomy of choice. Those are not the only two options. You also have the universe, in some form always existing as a third. There is conceptually more options than this again.

Either the universe existed forever, eternally, or it had a beginning. I think most cosmologists agree with the idea of the big bang.

Assuming the universe is not eternal in some form or another, nor descended from different rules. Bear in mind particles zip in and out of existence ALL the time. In fact its a normal state of the universe.
We have only just started touching upon the quantum vacuum where contingency does apparently apply. Even so, nobody proposes this as a definite start to the universe, merely theres a lot out there we don't understand, and "GodDidIt" is an unsatisfactory answer as it most definitely asserts "Magic".

So, how long does that ignorance play? A thousand years of saying, "We just don't know, but we will never accept the idea of God."

Defining God as eternal is not helpful either, because its simply an unproven assertion, not evidence, nor logical argument. Simple assertion. In this instance, you are simply demanding proof of a negative, ignoring all the other negatives that cannot be disproven. The onus of proof is on you for that assertion, and we both know that this will not be forthcoming.

Proof? What do you mean? The universe is obviously contingent and it obviously is ordered logically. That makes God an inescapable conclusion, and not matter what quantum speculation we invoke, the above facts will not change.

BTW, we are arguing for the existence of Zeus or Thor aren't we? We really should define which God you are talking about and how you link an argument which you believe proves a God, to your VERY SPECIFIC god with VERY SPECIFIC attributes. Please provide your link and working. (Clue: The Bible proves nothing).

God is the monistic entity of fundamental consciousness that created the universe.

There has to be a cause of the universe outside of the universe. It may be a stretch to call it a Christian version of God, but this first cause, must be intelligent and willful and capable of design. We therefore assume it to be conscious. That's why we assume it to be God.

Look at your wording "HAS TO BE". This isn't a definite at all. If God can be given the attribute of "uncaused" then you have broken the chain of "everything has a cause" which means your initial premise is disproven by your original argument. Saying there is a cause OUTSIDE of the universe where rules don't apply, does not lead to intelligence, because that is an incredibly complex being, whereas you would be more logical in assuming "outside" universe that simply has different laws. Occams Razor applies in full force.

Everything other than God, that is.

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[Phil]

You apprently have no idea either.

Stupid, deluded, condescending and arrogant and I will add shitty speller.

As I posted to you earlier...

[LastPoet]

Sorry guys, this one isn't even worth my time. I'd prefer to discuss particle physics with a donkey.