Conundrum

[BoyWonder]

for some reason God can't change the system he set up where he sends unbelievers and evildoers to Hell to be tortured for eternity.

So his initial plan sucked (so much for divine perfection...), and he isn't omnipotent but impotent!
Which goes a long way to explaining his subsequent sadism.

[Godscreated]

Hell isn't for evildoers, it's for unbelievers.
You can commit as much evil as you like and still get into heaven.

Prove your statement from the scriptures, there is no other place to find the answer for this.

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So now you're saying a person can't repent of their crimes and seek forgiveness from jesus.

Make up your mind please.

Yes, they can, sorry misread your statement.

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Think whatever you like, I want discuss points with a senseless person.

Cool mate! grab the woof and a bottle of bubbly and we'll talk!! Sexy music and we can ALL be 'SENSELESS!'

Got past that type of senselessness long ago, would set and have a beer with you and talk about whatever.

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Kinda shoots down the whole idea of omnipotence then, huh?

What does omnipotence have to do with what I said?

Nothing directly, just making an observation. Am I only allowed to bring up a weakness of god when you've explicitly opened the door for it?

Sorry, I really do not know how God's omnipotence has anything to do with this. Please explain in more detail.

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The thing is that Christians will see Satan as not the punisher of evildoers in Hell, but he is the bad guy who is constantly trying to get God's children to turn against him so that he will have plenty of company in Hell after the end of the world when he is forced to spend eternity there. The point where this falls apart is thinking that somehow Satan turns people away from God, and so makes God punish people for eternity even though he really doesn't want to because he loves them. So I don't know if this makes Satan more powerful than God because for some reason God can't change the system he set up where he sends unbelievers and evildoers to Hell to be tortured for eternity.

Satan does not turn people away from God, God would never allow this (freewill), Satan's power is limited, he can tempt and then each person has a decision to make. The biggest problem I have with people believing Satan gets involved in their lives is this, Satan has bigger fish to fry (no pun intended). People fail because they desire the world over God, rather simple isn't it.

[BoyWonder]

People fail because they desire the world over God, rather simple isn't it.

Quite!
Simple for simpletons who ignore the hundreds of irreconcilable contradictions in their rickety holy how-to manual. Comprehensive reading isn't their strong suit.

Life isn't simple. So the bible dumbs it down for you "non-cognitive" guys.

[mediamogul]

This one always turns into a "yes it is" "no it isn't" kind of assertion-fest amongst Christians. Catholics believe we are saved by works and Protestants generally believe we are saved by faith alone. Universalists believe everyone is saved. One sect believes Satan rules hell, another believes he is just loose corrupting god's earth, another believes god is both forces incarnated in different ways when he acts in a good or "evil" way. Such discussions are akin to stating the easter bunny is better than the tooth fairy because the easter bunny gives you candy and the tooth fairy buys your teeth for a quarter (unless its gone up these days with inflation and increased cost of living? can the tooth fairy be subject to govt regulation?) Anyways... The point being that everyone just asserts something different and then uses the bible to try and insist that their assertion is verified by the "truth" of scripture. Boring argument.

[downbeatplumb]

I think so. Plus he also gave us morals in the garden of eden. He kinda saved us from god in the bible.

So if your inclined to believe in the non-sense satan is not such a bad guy. Greatly misrepresented.

The bible says its a serpent in the garden, people just assume its satan.

In the Hebrew Bible the serpent in the Garden of Eden lured Eve with the promise of forbidden knowledge, convincing her that despite God's warning, death would not be the result. The serpent is identified with wisdom: "Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made" (Genesis 3:1). There is no indication in Genesis that the Serpent was a deity in its own right, although it is one of only two cases of animals that talk in the Pentateuch, Balaam's ass being the other. Although the identity of the Serpent as Satan is implied in the Christian Book of Revelation,[26] in Genesis the Serpent is merely portrayed as a deceptive creature or trickster, promoting as good what God had directly forbidden, and particularly cunning in its deception. (Gen. 3:4–5 and 3:22)

[Nine]

I think so. Plus he also gave us morals in the garden of eden. He kinda saved us from god in the bible.

So if your inclined to believe in the non-sense satan is not such a bad guy. Greatly misrepresented.

The bible says its a serpent in the garden, people just assume its satan.

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!

I get this one wrong one way or another. People either tell me its clearly satan and get angry about it when i say its a snake. Or I say its satan to keep them happy and this happens!

Need clarification!! Wheres the theists at?

Dear theists,
Please clarify whether or not the serpent in the garden of eden was or was not satan once and for all so I don't have to deal with this bullshit any longer.

many thanks Insanity X

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

I am not nice. People don't think I'm nice. I don't try to be nice.

I have no "commitment to the forum". None. Are you kidding me? After 3 posts? So there is nothing to show.

Refreshing honesty.However,watch your step;we already have two resident cunts; me and Minimalist.

That's OK; we can always find room for another village idiot,and you're off to a splendid start.

[Zen Badger]

Hell isn't for evildoers, it's for unbelievers.
You can commit as much evil as you like and still get into heaven.

Prove your statement from the scriptures, there is no other place to find the answer for this.

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So now you're saying a person can't repent of their crimes and seek forgiveness from jesus.

Make up your mind please.

Yes, they can, sorry misread your statement.

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So yes, as I was saying, hell is for unbelievers. Whereas murdering rapist scumbags can get into heaven just by accepting JC and asking for foregiveness. Seems fair to me...........

[Godscreated]

Hell isn't for evildoers, it's for unbelievers.
You can commit as much evil as you like and still get into heaven.

Prove your statement from the scriptures, there is no other place to find the answer for this.

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So now you're saying a person can't repent of their crimes and seek forgiveness from jesus.

Make up your mind please.

Yes, they can, sorry misread your statement.

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So yes, as I was saying, hell is for unbelievers. Whereas murdering rapist scumbags can get into heaven just by accepting JC and asking for foregiveness. Seems fair to me...........

Glad we agree.

[Zen Badger]

Prove your statement from the scriptures, there is no other place to find the answer for this.

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So now you're saying a person can't repent of their crimes and seek forgiveness from jesus.

Make up your mind please.

Yes, they can, sorry misread your statement.

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So yes, as I was saying, hell is for unbelievers. Whereas murdering rapist scumbags can get into heaven just by accepting JC and asking for foregiveness. Seems fair to me...........

Glad we agree.

Yep, all the rapists, murders, general arseholes and christians will be in heaven.

And all the reasonable, rational people will be in hell.

Sounds eminently fair.