Contraversial Turkish Schools Bill

[Minimalist]

Santorum can go there after he loses. He'd be right at home with those dickheads.

Or stick him undefended in a female prison, they'd love him in there

What did he do to deserve being 'stuck' as the sole male with a thousand horny women?

You make a good point. He should go to a men's prison where he can learn all about gay sex!

[BoyWonder]

Something tells me he'd probably love it...

[Koldaramor]

Always the same scenario. Purpose little girls wear hijab, then make them slaves.

http://atheistforums.org/thread-9714.html

[Reforged]

Anyone else alittle concerned about all this pressure on passing laws to make the world slowly but surely more fundamentalist? I mean the western countries are resisting laws equivalent to this passing through but the way its going I couldn't possibly say for how much longer.

[kılıç_mehmet]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17571131

A new Turkish school bill has been passed that allows children to be put into "specialist" schools at a younger age. Specialist in this case means Islam schools.

Well, these schools were actually designed to produce İmams.
As you might know, imams are people who lead prayers in mosques, and give sermons. After their graduation, they might seek higher education in theology in a university, however until now, these were barred from seeking higher education in any other academic branch, as their branches are, as you said it, "specialist" branches.
The thing is here. These schools were founded by our founding fathers to quell the many sheikhs and rogue mollas and other sects, who were primarily anti-secularists, these schools aimed to raise imams who would be loyal to the state, and receive their salaries from the state.
But for some time, the neo-islamists have been sending their children to these schools, and expect them to be more than imams, even girls who cannot become imams, go to these schools, and expect to go to the university from there. It's not only unfair towards people like me, who have no other *job* than with what I'll graduate from this university, for them to have two jobs at their graduation, it's also a way for the neo-islamists to raise their own elite cadre of people....

It doesn't really matter if this will start eariler on, really. What matters is if they will be able to go to the university without facing barriers.


I personally view these schools as very dangerous. The neo-islamists in league with the liberals in our country will probably push for even more stupid shit in the future, but I don't think their aims are to build a theocratic country-not that they can anyways, but they are doing nothing but creating unnecessary controversies to blind the people, and lure public attention away from where it's needed the most.
The one behind all of this is a puppet of sorts, Fetullah Gülen, who is the mastermind of the whole scheme. He was stopped in the past by nationalistic army and police commanders, by nationalistic intelligence officers, nationalists like myself and...*cosmopolitan* living people who considered the "conservatisation", a falsely used term, of the urban places to be distasteful.

[Koldaramor]

Is Fethullah Gulen Working for the CIA and FBI?

http://sheikyermami.com/2010/04/06/fethu...rsburg-pa/

The most dangerous Islamist in the world is neither Afghani nor Arab.

He comes from neither Sudan nor Somalia.

And he resides in neither the mountains of Pakistan nor the deserts of the Palestinian territories.

This individual has toppled the secular government of Turkey and established madrassahs throughout the world.

His schools indoctrinate children in the tenets of radical Islam and prepare adolescents for the Islamization of the world.


More than 90 of these madrassahs have been established as charter schools throughout the United States. They are funded by American taxpayers.

One of these charter schools – – Tarek ibn Zayed Academy (TiZA) in Minnesota – – is so radically Islamic and subversive in nature that the Minnesota Department of Education issued two citations against it and the American Civil Liberties Union is suing it.

Dozens of his universities, including the Faith University in Istanbul, train young men to become lawyers, accountants, and political leaders so that they can take an active part in the restoration of the Ottoman Empire and the Islamization of the Western World.

He also allegedly operates compounds to train jihadis in the tactics of guerilla warfare.

This individual has amasssed a fortune – – over $30 billion – – for the creation of a universal caliphate.

The Saylorsburg property consists of a massive chalet surrounded by numerous out buildings, including recreational centers, dormitories, cabins for visiting foreign dignitaries, a helicopter pad, and firing ranges.

Neighbors complain of the incessant sounds of gunfire – – including the rat-tat-tat of fully automatic weapons – – coming the compound and the low flying helicopter that circles the area in search of all intruders.

The FBI has been called to the scene, the neighbors say, but no action has been taken to end the illegal activity.

Sentries stand guard at the gates to the estate to turn away all curiosity seekers.

Within the sentry hut are wide screen televisions that project high resolution images from security cameras.

Before the hut is a sign that reads “Golden Generation Worship and Retreat Center.”

It’s hard for the local residents to understand that the Muslim who operates this compound is not an American political or intelligence official – – but rather a radical Islamist from Turkey.

Gulen fled Turkey in 1998 to avoid prosecution on charges that he was attempting to undermine Turkey’s secular government with the objective of establishing an Islamic government. Since his arrival in Pennsylvania, the Department of Homeland Security has been trying to deport him. But in 2008 a federal court ruled that Gulan was an individual with “extraordinary ability in the field of education” who merited permanent residence status in the U.S.

The ruling remains quizzical because Gulen has no formal education training.

Gülen, according to the Middle East Quarterly, was a student and follower of Sheikh Sa’id-i Kurdi (1878-1960), also known as Sa’id-i Nursi, the founder of the Islamist Nur (light) movement. After Turkey’s war of independence, Kurdi demanded, in an address to the new parliament, that the new republic be based on Islamic principles. He turned against Atatürk and his reforms and against the new modern, secular, Western republic.

How powerful is Gulen? And why is he such a threat to America and the Western world?

Consider this.

Turkey is now ruled by the Justice and Democratic Party (Adalet ve Kalkinma, AKP)- – a party under the Gulen’s control. Abdullah Gul, Turkey’s first Islamist President, is a Gulen disciple along with Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Yusuf Ziya Ozcan, the head of Turkey’s Council of Higher Education.

Under the AKP, Turkey has transformed from a secular state into an Islamic country with 85,000 active mosques – – one for every 350- citizens – – the highest number per capita in the world, 90,000 imams, more imams than teachers and physicians – – and thousands of state-run Islamic schools.

Despite the rhetoric of European Union accession, Turkey has transferred its alliance from Europe and the United States to Russia and Iran. It has moved toward friendship with Hamas, Hezbollah, and Syria and created a pervasive anti-Christian, anti-Jewish, and anti-American animus throughout the populace.

Speaking on Monday at the inauguration ceremony of “TRT al Turkiye”, the new channel of the state run TV station TRT, Prime Minister Erdogan said Turkey will always be on the side of Muslims wherever they are.

Gulen’s tentacles stretch throughout the country since his followers, known as Fethullahists, have gained control of the country’s media outlets, its financial institutions and banks, and its business organizations.

According to Bayram Balci, a Turkish scholar, the Gulen schools that have been established throughout the world seek to expand “the Islamization of Turkish nationality and the Turification of Islam” in order to bring about a universal caliphate ruled by Islamic law.

Several countries have outlawed the establishment of Gulen schools and cemaats (communities) within their borders – – including Russia and Uzbekistan. Even the Netherlands, a nation that embraces pluralism and tolerance, has opted to cut funding to the Gulen schools because of their imminent threat to the social order.

But Gulen’s activities in the United States, including the establishment of an armed fortress in the midst of the Pocono Mountains, have escaped national press attention.

In his public statements, Gulen espouses a liberal version of Sunni/Hanafi Islam and promotes the Muslim notion of hizmet – – altruistic service to the common good.

Despite the paramilitary training at his Pocono fortress, Gulen has condemned terrorism and called for interfaith dialogue. He has met with Pope John Paul II, the Greek Orthodox Patriarch Bartholomeos, and Israeli Sephardic Head Rabbi Eliyahu Bakshi-Doron.

In private, Gulen has stated that “in order to reach the ideal Muslim society ‘every method and path is acceptable, [including] lying to people.’”

In a sermon that was aired on Turkish television, Gulen said:

You must move in the arteries of the system without anyone noticing your existence until you reach all the power centers … until the conditions are ripe, they [the followers] must continue like this. If they do something prematurely, the world will crush our heads, and Muslims will suffer everywhere, like in the tragedies in Algeria, like in 1982 [in] Syria … like in the yearly disasters and tragedies in Egypt. The time is not yet right. You must wait for the time when you are complete and conditions are ripe, until we can shoulder the entire world and carry it … You must wait until such time as you have gotten all the state power, until you have brought to your side all the power of the constitutional institutions in Turkey … Until that time, any step taken would be too early—like breaking an egg without waiting the full forty days for it to hatch. It would be like killing the chick inside. The work to be done is [in] confronting the world. Now, I have expressed my feelings and thoughts to you all—in confidence … trusting your loyalty and secrecy. I know that when you leave here—[just] as you discard your empty juice boxes, you must discard the thoughts and the feelings that I expressed here.

Why has the federal government opted to turn a blind eye to Gulen and his mountain fortress?

Why have Gulen’s madrassahs been kept under the radar screen of Hoimeland Security?

Why have the CIA and FBI allowed Gulen to wreak havoc and topple secular governments without interruption or intervention?

The answers remain anyone’s guess.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Is Fethullah Gulen Working for the CIA and FBI?

Our brethren in Turkmenistan and other parts of the Turkic world have already closed the schools of this dangerous Ummah sympathisant.
In Turkey, he has a large civillian following, and he is raising his own elite, allows them to get dangerously close to governmental positions, and more importantly, into the army, our pride, the protector of our country.

But I can tell you this much. Fetullah Gülen is no threat to the western world, or America, even. He is a threat to the moslem world. He follows the directives of his overlords in the US. We all know this. We call him "the Cardinal with a Turban", and other Islamists who are not aligned with him call him "the infidel Molla".

[Autumnlicious]

While you paint him with the brush of infidels, I'd like to point out you have as much legitimacy in painting him like that as he does of you. Perhaps even more so to the common Turk because he's using the crutch of religion to give his movement legitimacy to the people. A mandate of heaven, if you will.

I'd also like to point out that several branches of our government tried to remove him -- however, it appears that he has friends in higher, more shadowed places.

Geo-politically-wise, it does make sense to support this man, if only for the chaos he causes in Turkey. However, it is rather questionable to the US to allow any religious group to rise to the top -- the intelligence arm thought the Taliban would be fantastic neighbors, for example. That did not turn out well at all.

It is weird how you pit liberals and islamists together, as liberal ideology often conflicts with Islamist ideology -- perhaps these are not liberals you speak of? I find it hard to believe that liberalisms like "freedom of speech" and "freedom of religion" would be welcomed by the Islamists.

[kılıç_mehmet]

While you paint him with the brush of infidels

Well, in purely religious terms, he is a "kafir". In my terms, he is a moslem if he claims to be one. He could be a christian if he claimed to be one. Who am I to claim otherwise?

I'd like to point out you have as much legitimacy in painting him like that as he does of you.

I don't, actually. I really don't care what his religious views are. All islamists hold a certain form of ummah sympathy. I oppose this, as this is not just a religious, but a political ideal.

A mandate of heaven, if you will.

Again, in purely religious terms, that would require him to hold the title of Caliph.

I'd also like to point out that several branches of our government tried to remove him -- however, it appears that he has friends in higher, more shadowed places.

That much is certain. We can already see this from all the havoc that was caused for nothing. However, I think that his primary goal for now it to simply cover up his tracks. The army has been ejecting each and every of his thralls from the ranks of his officers.

Geo-politically-wise, it does make sense to support this man, if only for the chaos he causes in Turkey. However, it is rather questionable to the US to allow any religious group to rise to the top -- the intelligence arm thought the Taliban would be fantastic neighbors, for example. That did not turn out well at all.

It did turn out to be well, actually. It still turns out to be well. The US has at least an excuse to keep NATO inside Afghanistan.

It is weird how you pit liberals and islamists together, as liberal ideology often conflicts with Islamist ideology -- perhaps these are not liberals you speak of? I find it hard to believe that liberalisms like "freedom of speech" and "freedom of religion" would be welcomed by the Islamists.

It doesn't. In Turkey, it doesn't. Liberals and (neo)islamists are rather equivalents of eachother. They are all cheap populists.
Besides, liberals welcome freedom of speech as long as it conflicts with the foundations of this country, as long as it aids in the demonisation of the army, as long as it destroys nationalistic tendencies. They do this because it is very much in favor of their interests. Liberals are nothing more than simple pragmatists. They ally themselves with the neo-islamists in Turkey, as it allows them a free hand on politics, along with filling their pockets. Besides, neo-islamists do welcome freedom of speech and freedom of religion as long as it fits their purposes. Besides, neo-islamists are not even focused on the creation of a theocratic state anymore. I'd put them in the same shoes with the christian-democrat parties in Europe, however, unlike these parties, they do not try to undermine the foundations of their respective countries, to change it with a US-aligned, economically "liberalized" state of affairs.
This is what they hold of democracy, liberty and freedom.

[Koldaramor]

Fethullah Gulen is supported by the fact that the United States. Gulen religious community, even on arizona military school opened.
(Arizona Davis Monthan Air Force Base * Opening 2009 *)
Because the U.S. always doing politics over religion. Also has good relations with Gulen's church.