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[split] Debunking Christianity? And Boris Spacek raised the dead...
#11
RE: [split] Debunking Christianity? And Boris Spacek raised the dead...
In this sense of the word a plane of existence is an area of existence that is unconnected to another plane that an entity such as myself could only exist in one at a time. Hopefully you understand what I'm getting at, because yes, that is quite difficult to define.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#12
RE: [split] Debunking Christianity? And Boris Spacek raised the dead...
(April 4, 2012 at 4:49 pm)Boris Spacek Wrote: Sheesh, no need to be so dogmatic about it. It's a flame if the other party is insulted; that's Speech Legislation for you.

No sir! Not by the longest of chalks! You do not have the right to be insulted - that's Free Speech for you. A comment is a flame if it is said with the intention of derailing discussion. Min's comment contained information, namely his opinion of your approach to reasoning. Yours did not and was solely a personal attack. That nobody else "got it" is your own problem.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
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#13
RE: [split] Debunking Christianity? And Boris Spacek raised the dead...
(April 4, 2012 at 5:00 pm)Faith No More Wrote: In this sense of the word a plane of existence is an area of existence that is unconnected to another plane that an entity such as myself could only exist in one at a time. Hopefully you understand what I'm getting at, because yes, that is quite difficult to define.

Can you name some planes of existence for me please? The planes I'm familiar with are kind of tangled and intertwined. Thanks.
(April 4, 2012 at 6:09 pm)Stimbo Wrote:
(April 4, 2012 at 4:49 pm)Boris Spacek Wrote: Sheesh, no need to be so dogmatic about it. It's a flame if the other party is insulted; that's Speech Legislation for you.

No sir! Not by the longest of chalks! You do not have the right to be insulted - that's Free Speech for you. A comment is a flame if it is said with the intention of derailing discussion. Min's comment contained information, namely his opinion of your approach to reasoning. Yours did not and was solely a personal attack. That nobody else "got it" is your own problem.

Sure, mine didn't contain any information (it's not like Mini actually found any instances of circular reasoning in my paragraph), but anyone with a sense of humor would have chuckled to see me not rising to the occasion to throw back a real insult to his sneering provocation.

BTW, nice sig.
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#14
RE: [split] Debunking Christianity? And Boris Spacek raised the dead...
Boris Spacek Wrote:Can you name some planes of existence for me please? The planes I'm familiar with are kind of tangled and intertwined. Thanks.

I'd like to revise what I said about planes being unconnected. What I should have said is they are separate but can still be connected.

You ever read "The Dark Tower" series? When Roland performs the drawing of the three he pulls people in from different planes of existence.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#15
RE: [split] Debunking Christianity? And Boris Spacek raised the dead...
(April 4, 2012 at 8:03 pm)Faith No More Wrote:
Boris Spacek Wrote:Can you name some planes of existence for me please? The planes I'm familiar with are kind of tangled and intertwined. Thanks.

I'd like to revise what I said about planes being unconnected. What I should have said is they are separate but can still be connected.

You ever read "The Dark Tower" series? When Roland performs the drawing of the three he pulls people in from different planes of existence.

Oh cool! It only just occurred to me what that series is about. They're on my list, so I'll have to get back to you on that, as I'm sort of out of my area of knowledge.
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#16
RE: [split] Debunking Christianity? And Boris Spacek raised the dead...
Quote:Tell that to Minimalist. At least mine was a reference to children's literature. You didn't get it did you?


This is me being kind to a noob: Angel Cloud

(1) Your argument is tu quoque.

(2) Very unwise to argue with a moderator.

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#17
RE: [split] Debunking Christianity? And Boris Spacek raised the dead...
(April 5, 2012 at 4:29 am)padraic Wrote:
Quote:Tell that to Minimalist. At least mine was a reference to children's literature. You didn't get it did you?


This is me being kind to a noob: Angel Cloud

(1) Your argument is tu quoque.

(2) Very unwise to argue with a moderator.

Well...excuse my ignorance. I didn't know his grace was in our presence; I'd have brushed up my tone. Though in my defense, I was presenting my side of the altercation. I'll heed your second point, and be thankful I didn't run into a Noob Hunter. Also, I'd like to thank whoever split this thread, since I only just learned that necromancy was against regulations.
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#18
RE: Debunking Christianity? It's actually quite as simple as asking "why?"
(April 4, 2012 at 2:58 pm)Boris Spacek Wrote: My point was that anything, if properly conceived, (that is, building upon the laws of nature), can be brought into existence. We're literally doing it all the time, but proper conception is the key. If you deny this, you're saying that science cannot work: you're saying that from many smaller conjectures, you cannot build new ideas or invent new machines.

I'm not saying that everything conceived is able to be generated from matter--thought some Idealists do believe this. I'm saying that an idea that's well constructed enough exists long before someone "tests" it using nature. Scientific progression leans heavily upon this definition of existence. For something to 'exist', as everybody accepts the notion of the word, it only needs to be built. Supposing that the way it were built could be known by man, then he could essentially claim to know and understand it, even prior to witnessing it in real life, etc. All a concept is is a very heavily compacted representation of the thing itself, supposedly containing all the information required to build it. In the mind, it can even behave the same way its real facsimile would.

On these terms, conception certainly can allow any number of impossible entities to feign existence, but perfect conception or complete conception cannot involve impossible entities because you've already recognized what makes them impossible by the time you've perfectly conceived of them

In response to your second point, indeed that may be true. In some cases I've agreed that it is true; however, cannot one combine concepts formed from observation to create a concept that has no corresponding physical entity? A griffin, for example. Now, we don't say that griffins don't exist because we've never seen them--we're not that naive--instead we say they don't because there is no evolutionary pathway that could have led to such a bizarre crossover. It is because we cannot perfectly conceive of it that we believe it doesn't exist. True, many extant organisms are independent of our perfect conceptualization of them: we'll meet many cattle before we fully appreciate their complex digestive system. But my argument is that well formed concepts have a kind of existence that is appreciable compared to how 'real' physical entities seem to us.

To clarify, I'm neither a realist nor an idealist. I'm just siding with the idealists on a few points.

It seems more like you are agreeing to my points.

1. You speak of being properly conceived, instead of just conceived - which means the characteristics of the object must be derived from and be consistent with material reality. You spoke only of the capacity to perfectly imagine how it would work for it to possibly exist, but that is not enough. Every part of that imagination must be consistent with the working of natural laws. All the information you have about it would not matter if some of it is false.

2. Yes, combination of concepts is possible, but for the resultant entity to have a possible physical existence, the combined features must be consistent with natural laws.
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#19
RE: [split] Debunking Christianity? And Boris Spacek raised the dead...
Quote:I only just learned that necromancy was against regulations.


Really? I didn't know that. Easy to do and not all that uncommon...


Quote:I didn't know his grace was in our presence


Well,yeah,they're like The Shadow;they're everywhere. Morris is one of them. By all means argue with him or other staff. I'm not game.;they have access to the ban hammer and have been known to wield it with enthusiasm Cool Shades


Me? I'm just trying to be nice to a noob,and the effort has given me a headache.Think I'll stop now.
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