Evolution

[Epimethean]

"I'm about to read this article. But in the meantime please do tell which worldview do you believe is responsible for the foundations of modern science?"

Just read the article, trigger. Read all of it, including the footnotes.

[FallentoReason]

They got got their mathematics from the Egyptians who got their mathematics from the Babylonians (so technically they really didn't give us that either). So essentially all they really contributed to society was mindless drivel that became standard doctrine of the western world for centuries prior to the Christian worldview dominance.

I wasn't talking about the origins of maths. I meant things like the Pythagorean Theorem. Most of what gets taught at university isn't anything new but was developed by the Greeks.

[Christi]

I am proof of Evolution, because I still walk on my hands at times and throw poo at strangers. I try to hang from trees but keep falling off and hurting myself.

[Cyberman]

over 13,000,000,000 ly away (sorry, I hate and detest the 'new' definition of billion and refuse to use it unless I absolutely have no choice but to do so).

USA vs. Europe....the forum is in the UK so I guess the USA loses this one. How about we say 13000 million?

That's what I always go with. I don't see it in terms of English imperialism, or superiority or whatever. To me it's just mathematically more correct.

What is the new definition of 13 billion?

Until relatively recently, a billion had always been 1,000,000,000,000 or one million million - literally one bi-million. Which makes much more sense when you consider how base ten counting actually works. By extension, one trillion - tri-million - would be one million million million and so on.

To put it another way: regardless of the exchange rate, you can have a new-billion English pounds, I'll settle for a proper-billion US dollars.

[Abishalom]

They got got their mathematics from the Egyptians who got their mathematics from the Babylonians (so technically they really didn't give us that either). So essentially all they really contributed to society was mindless drivel that became standard doctrine of the western world for centuries prior to the Christian worldview dominance.

I wasn't talking about the origins of maths. I meant things like the Pythagorean Theorem. Most of what gets taught at university isn't anything new but was developed by the Greeks.

Yeah the equation bears his name, but I assure you that he (nor any Greek) came up with it. I am not going to sit here and and act like the Greeks contributed absolutely nothing to society. My main point is that if it weren't for the Christian worldview science would be totally different today. Science to the Greeks was more speculation than actual fact. Their philosophy was postulate many ideas and never test them, which consisted of circular reasoning to validate the claims. It was the Greek worldview that dominated the west for many centuries. That all changed when the Christian worldview became dominant in the west. Otherwise, we might still believe that the earth is the center of the universe. Of course there are still some Greek philosophical views hidden in certain parts of today's science (we're discussing one of them on this thread).

[Cyberman]

My main point is that if it weren't for the Christian worldview science would be totally different today.

And I don't think there's anyone here who would argue with you. Though not for the reasons you mean.

[simplexity]

Until relatively recently, a billion had always been 1,000,000,000,000 or one million million - literally one bi-million. Which makes much more sense when you consider how base ten counting actually works. By extension, one trillion - tri-million - would be one million million million and so on.

To put it another way: regardless of the exchange rate, you can have a new-billion English pounds, I'll settle for a proper-billion US dollars.

Here in the US 1,000,000,000 has always been a billion, although now I understand why it is different in the UK. How did you say 1,000,000,000 in the UK? This whole thing is mega confusing.
US Standard:
1,000: one-thousand
1,000,000: 1-million
1,000,000,000: 1-billion
1,000,000,000,000: 1-trillion
1,000,000,000,000,000 and up: a google

[Cyberman]

Confusing? Not really. 1,000,000,000 is just one thousand million. This progresses in the normal way:

10,000,000,000: ten thousand million
100,000,000,000: one hundred thousand million
1000,000,000,000: one billion (one million million)
1,000,000,000,000,000,000: one trillion (one million million million)

and so on. It's only become confusing since we adopted your standard; although to be fair, as long as we had unequal standards, confusion was part of the package. It's my opinion that we chose the wrong one. A more cynical person might say that the temptation to 'The Government' to sound more affluent, more successful and more benificent whilst spending a thousandth of what you think they are outweighed mathematical accuracy and plain common sense.

In general usage, this sort of hairsplitting probably looks like pedantic nonsense. On the other hand, in certain specific fields such as astronomy, mathematics and others in which numbers of this magnitude are used, accuracy is key. A spacecraft would certainly spot the difference between enough fuel for one thousand million kilometres (about as far as Saturn) and one million million kilometres (about a tenth of a lightyear).

Much simpler, in my view, to scrap the whole billion/trillion/quadrillion tangle and adopt mutliples of million as the new standard.

[Norfolk And Chance]

over 13,000,000,000 ly away (sorry, I hate and detest the 'new' definition of billion and refuse to use it unless I absolutely have no choice but to do so).

USA vs. Europe....the forum is in the UK so I guess the USA loses this one. How about we say 13000 million?

That's what I always go with. I don't see it in terms of English imperialism, or superiority or whatever. To me it's just mathematically more correct.

What is the new definition of 13 billion?

Until relatively recently, a billion had always been 1,000,000,000,000 or one million million - literally one bi-million. Which makes much more sense when you consider how base ten counting actually works. By extension, one trillion - tri-million - would be one million million million and so on.

To put it another way: regardless of the exchange rate, you can have a new-billion English pounds, I'll settle for a proper-billion US dollars.

A billion has been one thousand million all of my life.

[simplexity]

Yeah, really the whole confusing part for me is just the fact you don't know for sure what someone means when they say a simple thing like 1-billion.

For me it's not that big of a deal in the science perspective. Whenever I do calculations I write the whole thing out or use scientific notation. It would be a huge disaster for anyone in any field using mathematics to use english when describing anything serious.