Hi

[Darwinian]

If you look at the general human nature/behaviour men are more physical while women are more emotional. If you look the everyday life in a marriage, sometimes the husband may require to hit her wife to bring her out of a prolonged bad mood even though there is an undercurrent of love and desire for the woman and no real harm is done to the woman.

Oh, I see.. Husband gives Wife a good slap around the face because she's getting a bit emotional but he does it out of love does he?

This is abhor-ant, disgusting and vile.. This is not the way that rational human beings should behave and there can be NO excuse for it. Just because some ancient text states that you can do it does not make it so. I suspect all that is happening here is that you are using this nonsense from the dark ages to mask your own sense of superiority over women as you feel that you are better.

[peace2u]

Peace2u ... do you advocate violence (of any sort) against women without allowing them the equal visitation of violence upon you?

According to Islamic Principles, if the husband beats a wife without respecting the limits set down by the Quran and Hadith, then she can take him to court and if ruled in favour has the right to apply the law of retaliation and beat the husband as he beat her. So Islam gives the right to the wife to hit the husband if he is unjust towards her in physical situations and I support this.

Like I said, hitting someone is not always considered to be an act of violence. It can be an act of discipline, bring someone out of prolonged bad mood, bring attention to the person and etc.

[Darwinian]

It's obvious then that the Qur'an was written by arrogent men who had little regard for the rights of women.

All you are doing is to reinforce the old stereotype that Islam is a violent religion that places women firmly under the control of men. That they are in fact second class citizens and are under the control of their husbands.

What right has any man got to 'disipline' a woman as if she is some sort of naughty child. This is absurd and ridiculous.

And to state that giving a women a good slap will cheer her up after being in a bad mood is just stupid.

How many times have you hit a woman? And are you proud of it?

Don't worry though, the Bible is just as disgusting towards women.

[Kyuuketsuki]

Like the example I gave before, in movies, one often sees the following type of scene: a man and a woman love each other but in some matter the woman simply does not want to listen to the man even though she realizes deep down that he is thinking for the good of both of them. The man tries all the tender ways to bring the woman around to his point of view without any success. Frustrated, the man at last bursts into anger and gives the woman a slap. This shakes the woman out of her mood and she falls on his shoulders, with both happier than before. Of course, movies are no guide for us but sometimes they do represent human nature and life as it is.

You're using movies (an obviously UNREAL representation of life) as evidence? You're more of a [expletive deleted] than I thought!

Kyu

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According to Islamic Principles, if the husband beats a wife without respecting the limits set down by the Quran and Hadith, then she can take him to court and if ruled in favour has the right to apply the law of retaliation and beat the husband as he beat her. So Islam gives the right to the wife to hit the husband if he is unjust towards her in physical situations and I support this.

In other words the man can hit the woman but a woman must take it to the (male dominated, probably exclusively so) in order to get justice?

Remind me not to stop my opposition to Sharia Law in the UK!

Kyu

[Darwinian]

Like the example I gave before, in movies, one often sees the following type of scene: a man and a woman love each other but in some matter the woman simply does not want to listen to the man even though she realizes deep down that he is thinking for the good of both of them. The man tries all the tender ways to bring the woman around to his point of view without any success. Frustrated, the man at last bursts into anger and gives the woman a slap. This shakes the woman out of her mood and she falls on his shoulders, with both happier than before. Of course, movies are no guide for us but sometimes they do represent human nature and life as it is.

So, a good slap makes women happy.. Did you just get out of the Tardis from the dark ages because that's where your ideology belongs.

This shakes the woman out of her mood and she falls on his shoulders, with both happier than before.

Have you ever met a woman before?

[Matt85]

And don't even get us started on the Jihad shit.

[Dotard]

If you look the everyday life in a marriage, sometimes the husband may require to hit his wife....

I stopped reading right there. It is now obvious P2U is a child whom has never had a girlfriend or any extended contact/friendship with a woman. If indeed he is physically grown and is actually advocating violence towards women then I say prepare for dustoff, nuke the place from orbit. It's the only way to be absolutely sure.

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Please excuse this side note. Kyu, I am truely sorry for the post about language, please re-insert the expletives, it's just not the same without them. Expecially in your replies to this crazy-man, please use double-doses.

[Kyuuketsuki]

I stopped reading right there. It is now obvious P2U is a child whom has never had a girlfriend or any extended contact/friendship with a woman. If indeed he is physically grown and is actually advocating violence towards women then I say prepare for dustoff, nuke the place from orbit. It's the only way to be absolutely sure.

I'm not sure he is, I just think he has different moral/cultural standards ... what bugs me most is the fact that the idiot tries to justify it on the basis of his stupid fucking prophet's words, it's not even like he tries to think about it himself! IMO the beating on people less able to defend themselves, who haven't struck at you first and aren't harming you or yours (that seems poorly worded) is wrong and it doesn't take much intellectual effort to step out of your (his) bigoted beliefs to see that.

Please excuse this side note. Kyu, I am truely sorry for the post about language, please re-insert the expletives, it's just not the same without them. Expecially in your replies to this crazy-man, please use double-doses.

No worries, joke or not (and though I appreciate the support from various people) I think you had a point and sometimes I think my own behaviour is quite appalling ... but yeah, he deserves pretty much anything he gets!

Kyu

[peace2u]

Oh, I see.. Husband gives Wife a good slap around the face because she's getting a bit emotional but he does it out of love does he?

This is abhor-ant, disgusting and vile.. This is not the way that rational human beings should behave and there can be NO excuse for it. Just because some ancient text states that you can do it does not make it so. I suspect all that is happening here is that you are using this nonsense from the dark ages to mask your own sense of superiority over women as you feel that you are better.

Not because of she's getting a bit of emotional but for prolonged bad mood or consistent wrong behaviour. Like I said before, in Islam men has rights over women and women has rights over men, so in a marriage the husband may use his authority to sustain the relationship of the marriage by bringing out the wife's prolonged bad mood or consistent wrong behaviour that may affect the long term of the marriage. In other situations the wife may use her authority to sustain the relationship by taking the necessary actions against her husband if his actions may affect the balance of the marriage.

Just recently a research carried out by an American university (by non-Muslims) showed that women make decisions based on emotions by while men make it based on thinking. Therefore, in a marriage, the wife may sometimes affect the relationships by making decisions based on their emotions/feelings which could be the result of her being unwell, in her period, during her pregnancy and other family issues. Even researches show that a women’s mood changing when she is in her period or other situations (however please don't twist my words by saying that Islam punishes women because of her mood during period or whatever cos that's not the point). According to many Islamic scholars during these situation the husband needs to be very soft and emotional supportive to his wife and avoid arguments or anything else that may affect the situation. So here the husband has his duty to fulfil.

Just one last example, a mother may sometimes give her child a slap around the backside when the child consistently misbehaves (that's after she tells the child not to or consults with the child). She does it out of love for the child so that the child can be corrected for his consistent wrong action (Please not that I’m not comparing a women's status to a child, because that's what people use to argue back but just giving an example of family love).

(p.s when you argue back please consider all the points and not just pick out a certain line and secondly please don’t twist my words to beating or advocating violence towards because Islam doesn’t do that )

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It's obvious then that the Qur'an was written by arrogent men who had little regard for the rights of women.

All you are doing is to reinforce the old stereotype that Islam is a violent religion that places women firmly under the control of men. That they are in fact second class citizens and are under the control of their husbands.

To discuss the issues of women's right in Islam and their status, I'll cover in near future and hopefully I discuss both the Islamic and modern day perspective. Hopefully you come to know that Islam truly liberates Women.

What right has any man got to 'disipline' a woman as if she is some sort of naughty child. This is absurd and ridiculous.

And to state that giving a women a good slap will cheer her up after being in a bad mood is just stupid.

This hopefully I’ve covered in my previous thread. But if you don't agree then it's OK because the verse discusses the relationship between a husband and wife. To fully understand the logic, you would have to read in the natural behaviour of man and women and then read into the marriages roles of man and women in Islam.

How many times have you hit a woman? And are you proud of it?

I've never hit a woman. I always try to follow the examples of my Prophet (PBUH), he never hit any of his wives and his wives never complained about.

Don't worry though, the Bible is just as disgusting towards women.

What the Bible says towards women I don't know and not my concern because it has made mad contributions and changed over time and not the true Bible given to Jesus (AS).

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You're using movies (an obviously UNREAL representation of life) as evidence? You're more of a [expletive deleted] than I thought!

I think you did not read the last sentence, I said, 'Of course, movies are no guide for us but sometimes movies and soaps represent human nature and life as it is.' This is not evidence but sometimes it represents reality.

In other words the man can hit the woman but a woman must take it to the (male dominated, probably exclusively so) in order to get justice?

Remind me not to stop my opposition to Sharia Law in the UK!

Hopefully I’ll cover the Sharia Law sometime in the near future because the media does not fully explain it and see how applicable it is to any society.

[Tiberius]

Just recently a research carried out by an American university (by non-Muslims) showed that women make decisions based on emotions by while men make it based on thinking.

Can you provide a link to the research please? I'm pretty sure what it actually said is that women tend to let more emotions affect their decisions than men. This doesn't mean that men don't let their emotions effect their decisions, because we do...all the time.