Posts: 13900
Threads: 262
Joined: January 11, 2009
Reputation:
82
Hen gives birth to chick without egg!
April 20, 2012 at 11:30 am
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/17769677
Quote:A Sri Lanka hen has given birth to a chick without an egg, in a new twist on the age-old question of whether the chicken or the egg came first.
Instead of passing out of the hen's body and being incubated outside, the egg was incubated in the hen for 21 days and then hatched inside the hen.
The chick is fully formed and healthy, although the mother has died.
Evolution in action ?
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
Posts: 1123
Threads: 18
Joined: February 15, 2012
Reputation:
27
RE: Hen gives birth to chick without egg!
April 20, 2012 at 11:38 am
Yeah, but what came first?
The chicken or the chicken?
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
Posts: 30577
Threads: 204
Joined: July 19, 2011
Reputation:
141
RE: Hen gives birth to chick without egg!
April 20, 2012 at 11:46 am
Chicken or egg? Easy question.
Eggs are for breakfast.
Chicken is for lunch or dinner.
Ergo, the egg comes first.
Posts: 19788
Threads: 57
Joined: September 24, 2010
Reputation:
85
RE: Hen gives birth to chick without egg!
April 20, 2012 at 12:26 pm
(April 20, 2012 at 11:30 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/17769677
Quote:A Sri Lanka hen has given birth to a chick without an egg, in a new twist on the age-old question of whether the chicken or the egg came first.
Instead of passing out of the hen's body and being incubated outside, the egg was incubated in the hen for 21 days and then hatched inside the hen.
The chick is fully formed and healthy, although the mother has died.
Evolution in action ?
Not unless the chick manage to also grow up to give live birth.
Posts: 13900
Threads: 262
Joined: January 11, 2009
Reputation:
82
RE: Hen gives birth to chick without egg!
April 20, 2012 at 1:28 pm
(April 20, 2012 at 12:26 pm)Chuck Wrote: (April 20, 2012 at 11:30 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/17769677
Quote:A Sri Lanka hen has given birth to a chick without an egg, in a new twist on the age-old question of whether the chicken or the egg came first.
Instead of passing out of the hen's body and being incubated outside, the egg was incubated in the hen for 21 days and then hatched inside the hen.
The chick is fully formed and healthy, although the mother has died.
Evolution in action ?
Not unless the chick manage to also grow up to give live birth.
But if it did it could be the start of a new way of bird reproduction a new branch on the tree of life.
Even if it doesnt it gives an insight into how this could've happened in the mammalian line.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
Posts: 1327
Threads: 37
Joined: January 15, 2012
Reputation:
15
RE: Hen gives birth to chick without egg!
April 20, 2012 at 2:58 pm
(April 20, 2012 at 11:30 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/17769677
Quote:A Sri Lanka hen has given birth to a chick without an egg, in a new twist on the age-old question of whether the chicken or the egg came first.
Instead of passing out of the hen's body and being incubated outside, the egg was incubated in the hen for 21 days and then hatched inside the hen.
The chick is fully formed and healthy, although the mother has died.
Evolution in action ?
No evolution. The article says there was an egg inside the body. Evolution would be if there was no egg. What we have here is roughly a Chicken having a tubal pregnancy.
Posts: 19788
Threads: 57
Joined: September 24, 2010
Reputation:
85
RE: Hen gives birth to chick without egg!
April 20, 2012 at 4:18 pm
(This post was last modified: April 20, 2012 at 4:20 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(April 20, 2012 at 2:58 pm)Phil Wrote: (April 20, 2012 at 11:30 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/17769677
Quote:A Sri Lanka hen has given birth to a chick without an egg, in a new twist on the age-old question of whether the chicken or the egg came first.
Instead of passing out of the hen's body and being incubated outside, the egg was incubated in the hen for 21 days and then hatched inside the hen.
The chick is fully formed and healthy, although the mother has died.
Evolution in action ?
No evolution. The article says there was an egg inside the body. Evolution would be if there was no egg. What we have here is roughly a Chicken having a tubal pregnancy.
If tubal pregnancy has heritable genetic causes, it can certainly trigger evolution if there is selection pressure for it. I am hard pressed to come up with selecttion pressure favoring tubal pregnancy
But eggs hatching inside body (ovaviparity) is a distinctly different mode of reporduction for the purposes of survival fitness compare to eggs hatching after being laid outside the body, and paleotonolgy shows ovaviparity confer clear advantages to many branches of fishes and reptiles, and has evolved seperatelly over and over again in different branches.
Indeed some branches, like Ichtyosaurs, could never exist without the evolution of ovaviparity.
So it is less farfethed to say if ovaviparity appears in chickens, and it is heritable, then it could be an observed first part of a major evolutionary step in the chicken family.
Posts: 1327
Threads: 37
Joined: January 15, 2012
Reputation:
15
RE: Hen gives birth to chick without egg!
April 20, 2012 at 4:43 pm
(This post was last modified: April 20, 2012 at 4:44 pm by Phil.)
(April 20, 2012 at 4:18 pm)Chuck Wrote: (April 20, 2012 at 2:58 pm)Phil Wrote: (April 20, 2012 at 11:30 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/17769677
Quote:A Sri Lanka hen has given birth to a chick without an egg, in a new twist on the age-old question of whether the chicken or the egg came first.
Instead of passing out of the hen's body and being incubated outside, the egg was incubated in the hen for 21 days and then hatched inside the hen.
The chick is fully formed and healthy, although the mother has died.
Evolution in action ?
No evolution. The article says there was an egg inside the body. Evolution would be if there was no egg. What we have here is roughly a Chicken having a tubal pregnancy.
If tubal pregnancy has heritable genetic causes, it can certainly trigger evolution if there is selection pressure for it. I am hard pressed to come up with selecttion pressure favoring tubal pregnancy
But eggs hatching inside body (ovaviparity) is a distinctly different mode of reporduction for the purposes of survival fitness compare to eggs hatching after being laid outside the body, and paleotonolgy shows ovaviparity confer clear advantages to many branches of fishes and reptiles, and has evolved seperatelly over and over again in different branches.
Indeed some branches, like Ichtyosaurs, could never exist without the evolution of ovaviparity.
So it is less farfethed to say if ovaviparity appears in chickens, and it is heritable, then it could be an observed first part of a major evolutionary step in the chicken family.
Ovoviviparous animals are not uncommon. One chicken is an anomaly not evolution (unless the chicken is really a shark). However, if you prefer to think this is an evolutionary beginning that will ultimately lead to the demise of chicken eggs, feel free to transfer any stock you own in the egg industry to me.
Posts: 2966
Threads: 124
Joined: May 12, 2011
Reputation:
30
RE: Hen gives birth to chick without egg!
April 20, 2012 at 4:49 pm
'the age-old question of whether the chicken or the egg came first.'
The age old answer came 160 years ago.
Posts: 19788
Threads: 57
Joined: September 24, 2010
Reputation:
85
RE: Hen gives birth to chick without egg!
April 20, 2012 at 4:51 pm
(April 20, 2012 at 4:43 pm)Phil Wrote: Ovoviviparous animals are not uncommon. One chicken is an anomaly not evolution (unless the chicken is really a shark). However, if you prefer to think this is an evolutionary beginning that will ultimately lead to the demise of chicken eggs, feel free to transfer any stock you own in the egg industry to me.
Conceptual errors. Every evolution begins with an heritable anomaly. Evolution of distinct ovaviporous chicken population does not obsolete the population of egg laying chickens.
|
