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RE: 10 Arguments Against Hell
May 7, 2012 at 7:39 am
(This post was last modified: May 7, 2012 at 7:42 am by simplexity.)
The crimes of a sinner are not eternal, they are committed in a finite reality and lifetime.
Logically if God is eternal than he should be able to forgive during all of eternity, not just during a person's lifetime. This is why the whole idea of hell is laughable with a "loving god". Once you go to hell there is no chance of parole, there is not even a chance to repent. That is sick. We have a better system of justice right here on earth than this eternal God you love so much.
And if you describe hell as just being in a "place" separate from God this whole dogma of choosing where you want to go during this lifetime makes no since. This is the version hell my church went with. Yes, it sounds less scary, but it's not.
I myself would rather live with truth than lies and if "God" is truth and the "word", whatever that means than surely even an atheist is actually unknowingly choosing to go to heaven(it's not real by the way). What version of heaven and hell are we going with today?
Really the entire difference between atheists and the religious is that we can't believe dogma given without any evidence. Anything dogmatic and authoritarian does not deserve worship or belief. Truth is not dogmatic. Truth is ever changing in the patterns around us.
There is no evidence for a personal God so I cannot believe in it. There is no evidence for even an impersonal God. Maybe after we die our "energy" stays whole and we move on to another place. This is like anything else that is probably not true the same as those unicorns I refuse to believe in.
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RE: 10 Arguments Against Hell
May 7, 2012 at 4:12 pm
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RE: 10 Arguments Against Hell
May 7, 2012 at 5:18 pm
(May 7, 2012 at 6:09 am)Godschild Wrote: Quote:3. Punishment should rehabilitate. Hell is eternal. There is no chance for parole. It's only function is to torture.
You can not rehabilitate those who have committed crimes and do not repent from those crimes. What's to stop a person from repenting after they died?
What's to stop a sinner from admitting he's wrong and change his ways? You'd think the solitary confinement of Hell would be enough to get any rebellious (but not completely evil) soul to realise its error and ask for forgiveness?
Your doctrine on Hell is complicated, perhaps too complicated.
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RE: 10 Arguments Against Hell
May 7, 2012 at 5:23 pm
Can any of you Christians explain to me why exactly some free beings freely reject God while other freely accept him? What's the underlying cause that causes some to reject and other's to accept?
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RE: 10 Arguments Against Hell
May 7, 2012 at 5:42 pm
(This post was last modified: May 7, 2012 at 5:44 pm by Godscreated.)
(May 7, 2012 at 7:39 am)BrotherMagnet Wrote: The crimes of a sinner are not eternal, they are committed in a finite reality and lifetime.
Logically if God is eternal than he should be able to forgive during all of eternity, not just during a person's lifetime. This is why the whole idea of hell is laughable with a "loving god". Once you go to hell there is no chance of parole, there is not even a chance to repent. That is sick. We have a better system of justice right here on earth than this eternal God you love so much.
And if you describe hell as just being in a "place" separate from God this whole dogma of choosing where you want to go during this lifetime makes no since. This is the version hell my church went with. Yes, it sounds less scary, but it's not.
I myself would rather live with truth than lies and if "God" is truth and the "word", whatever that means than surely even an atheist is actually unknowingly choosing to go to heaven(it's not real by the way). What version of heaven and hell are we going with today?
Really the entire difference between atheists and the religious is that we can't believe dogma given without any evidence. Anything dogmatic and authoritarian does not deserve worship or belief. Truth is not dogmatic. Truth is ever changing in the patterns around us.
There is no evidence for a personal God so I cannot believe in it. There is no evidence for even an impersonal God. Maybe after we die our "energy" stays whole and we move on to another place. This is like anything else that is probably not true the same as those unicorns I refuse to believe in.
Sins are committed against an eternal God, and if one does not find forgiveness through Christ those sins remain against an eternal God, for eternity. As long as the sin exist so does the punishment which is eternal.
The rest of your statements are not Biblical, they are your opinion you want God to exist by, breaking news, God does not work with your mortal opinions. His will stands for eternity, in His omniscience His plan is perfect, your opinion changes nothing.
Guess what, evidence is not part of God's plan, at least the evidence you're looking for, and God is unchanging, so it is you that has to change, God will never come down to your level of unreasonable thinking.
(May 7, 2012 at 5:23 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Can any of you Christians explain to me why exactly some free beings freely reject God while other freely accept him? What's the underlying cause that causes some to reject and other's to accept?
Shouldn't you be able to answer that question, it is the reality you are living in.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: 10 Arguments Against Hell
May 7, 2012 at 5:44 pm
Also, I've heard it explained several times that Hell is the absence of God's presence. Doesn't this contradict God's omnipresence?
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RE: 10 Arguments Against Hell
May 7, 2012 at 5:54 pm
(May 7, 2012 at 5:44 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Also, I've heard it explained several times that Hell is the absence of God's presence. Doesn't this contradict God's omnipresence?
Well now, that depends on which definition of omnipresence you're using.
No doubt someone will be along shortly to present one where omnipresence == present everywhere except hell.
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RE: 10 Arguments Against Hell
May 7, 2012 at 6:09 pm
(This post was last modified: May 7, 2012 at 6:09 pm by Tea Earl Grey Hot.)
(May 7, 2012 at 5:54 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: (May 7, 2012 at 5:44 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Also, I've heard it explained several times that Hell is the absence of God's presence. Doesn't this contradict God's omnipresence?
Well now, that depends on which definition of omnipresence you're using.
No doubt someone will be along shortly to present one where omnipresence == present everywhere except hell.
I wouldn't be surprised. Theists are steadily chipping away at the foundations of their God. At the rate they're going, I wouldn't be surprised if in a hundred years, the theist definition of God is hardly different than an extra powerful man.
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RE: 10 Arguments Against Hell
May 7, 2012 at 6:14 pm
(May 7, 2012 at 6:09 am)Godschild Wrote: You can not rehabilitate those who have committed crimes and do not repent from those crimes.
Wc Wrote:What's to stop a person from repenting after they died?
The fact that is to late to do so, it is in this life that we have to make the decision to repent, after death there is the physical evidence you want, and salvation can only come through faith in Christ. Sorry but that is the plan of an unchanging God.
Wc Wrote:What's to stop a sinner from admitting he's wrong and change his ways?
The sinners own attitude, one's own self, in this the one has no one to blame other than his/her self.
Wc Wrote:You'd think the solitary confinement of Hell would be enough to get any rebellious (but not completely evil) soul to realise its error and ask for forgiveness?
Hell is not for rehabilitation, it's a place of punishment, the time for rehabilitation is in this life.
Wc Wrote:Your doctrine on Hell is complicated, perhaps too complicated.
It is not my doctrine, it's the plan of the omniscient, eternal and unchanging God.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: 10 Arguments Against Hell
May 7, 2012 at 6:17 pm
(May 7, 2012 at 5:44 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Also, I've heard it explained several times that Hell is the absence of God's presence. Doesn't this contradict God's omnipresence?
YHWH hasn't always been omnipotent and omniscient. In the OT, he wasn't able to defeat a tribe of people who had chariots of iron. He also had the strength of a wild ox and it took him six whole days to create the universe. He needed a breather and rested for the seventh and reportedly was "refreshed". All this says to me he wasn't always omnipotent.
I think he attained omnipotence when he achieved 20th level as a deity.
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