Atheists are Intolerant

[5thHorseman]

'Christians do wrong because the bible tells them to do wrong and atheists do wrong because of the individual and not atheism.'

YES, but no. The bible says it's ok, so it's not wrong according to the bible.

Mao and Stalin didn't murder in the name of atheism. They killed political opponents and anyone they didn't like. You won't find atheists flying planes into buildings or blowing up buildings as a revenge for Waco.

Atheism is just a lack of belief, it doesn't have a wackjob doctrine that commands rape and torture.

Are you devoid of using a dictionary, we are NOT a religion like you. We just do NOT believe.

Well the Catholic church must have did those things because God told them to. You mean to tell me that God commanded me to rape and torture people. Aw shucks...hide yo kids...hide yo wife...

Nah, my missus would kick your ass, and my eldest would bitchslap you back to the Baptist Church.

[Cinjin]

Well the Catholic church must have did those things because God told them to. You mean to tell me that God commanded me to rape and torture people?

YES! Yes he did. Please read your Bible or see a history book.

[Abishalom]

It's not a fallacy when said group (Catholic commits acts that are not acceptable to in said group's religious text (the bible). I guess you STILL blatantly ignored the FACT that the Bible was BANNED and nobody could translate into English for many centuries. I'm sure the bible told them to do that. Or how about this one...Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot were atheists, were they not? So it goes both ways.

It is still a fallacy no matter what slant you wish to put on it. These people murdered and killed in the name of christianity. You saying that they weren't true christians doesn't change that.

No it isn't you should study up on your fallacies. I never said anything about them being "true Christians". I simply said the bible does not teach that.

But can you explain to me what you mean by "killed in the name of Christianity"? Is this similar to when our government goes to war and "kills in the name of democracy/freedom"?

And it was entirely predictable you would bring up such dictators.

Yeah and I not surprised that you brought up the Catholic church even though I'M NOT CATHOLIC! You do know that there were other branches of Christianity right?

The thing you obviously cannot grasp however is that those dictators did not do what they did 'in the name of atheism' unlike many other figures throughout history who did their atrocities 'in the name of religion'.

Obviously you cannot grasp that there were other branches of Christianity and that the Catholic church forced false doctrines upon the masses. One being you cannot read the bible let alone translate it into English. This is NOT taught anywhere in the bible. You're basically insisting that atheists do bad because political goals and the Catholic church did bad because they wanted to go to heaven. Right...

The fact that they were atheists had nothing to do with their political goals and their political movements were not in the name of religion or atheism. Or do you disagree? Because I'd sure like some reference to where you think they did what they did due to their atheism.

How do you kill in the name of atheism and religion? I don't get why a Christian doing bad is Christianity's fault, but an atheist doing bad it is the individual. I agree that the individual should be held responsible, but it should go both ways. It is hypocritical to imposed such a double standard.

Oh is that what I said? Care to quote me on that?

This was what I responded to...
http://atheistforums.org/thread-12704-po...#pid281694

And you responed...
"You miss the point of the post.

The point is that millions (yes millions) of people have died due to christianity, because people refused to believe. They don't necessarily have to be atheist. They could be Jew, Muslim, agnostic whatever. Doesn't matter what label you give them. That's not the point.

The point is that christianity has oppressed others from doing what they want for hundreds of years."

But it was YOU that missed the POINT. I responded to a poster insisting that atheists had horrendous injustices forced upon them. You tried to make it a "everyone had bad done to them" claim. But that was NEVER the issue.

The POINT which I have repeated at least twice now, is that it DOES NOT MATTER whether the people who suffered due to christianity or any religion were atheist or not.

The simple fact is, people suffered because of it. Maybe try reading what I fucking write hmm?

Yeah well your point is irrelevant since I never made a case against your generalized "everyone was oppressed". I simply asked for anyone to list 5 atheist that were either "martyred" or received said injustices. Nobody has been able to justify this lie. The best you could do is try to change the subject.

Please tell me where the fuck I made this claim. Please find and quote and let me know exactly where I said this.

Again I reiterate my point, you are more concerned with what labels people have than the simple fact that people have suffered under the rule of your religion. It amazes me that you and your ilk have the audacity and the arrogance to take the moral high ground.

Again I will reiterate YOUR point is irrelevant. You are hiding behind a blanketed statement and avoiding the REAL argument.

I backed up my claims with fact and evidence and even you did not refute that millions of people have died in the name of christianity.

What is this claim you think I am making?

I will ask again, please quote and present where I make these 'claims' you think I am making.

Your argument is a straw man, so I'm sure it wasn't hard for you to do that. The claim you are making is "everybody had injustices" on the basis that I "misunderstood" the point in the post I replied to. Well if you go back to my first point you will see how this argument is just WRONG.

You are misinterpreting my argument intentionally and avoiding all the points I make in favour of pointless assertions.

You are misinterpreting my argument (you can decided whether it was intentional or not). Your points are totally irrelevant (but you only made one and that was that "everybody had injustices force upon them"). But my point I made in MY first post has been totally IGNORED by YOU.

---

Well the Catholic church must have did those things because God told them to. You mean to tell me that God commanded me to rape and torture people?

YES! Yes he did. Please read your Bible or see a history book.

Obviously it is YOU that should read the bible and a history book. Or maybe you could quote me the verse that says rape and torture is a commandment.

---

Well the Catholic church must have did those things because God told them to. You mean to tell me that God commanded me to rape and torture people. Aw shucks...hide yo kids...hide yo wife...

Nah, my missus would kick your ass, and my eldest would bitchslap you back to the Baptist Church.

I'm sure they'll understand since God "commanded" me to do it...

---

What do Christians committing crimes or being in jail have to do with Christianity?

I'd say a whole hell of a lot ... considering it's you people using the no true scotsman argument at every turn and hitting us non-believers with arguments about objective morality.

No it actually doesn't. And "you people" love to make hasty generalizations whenever you can (kind of like YOU just did).

Does an atheist committing a crime or going to jail make you reconsider being an atheist?

Of course not. Atheists make no claim of having higher moral standards and an "inner peace" supposedly provided by god upon salvation. I mean your point is just silly.

Yeah it's a silly as your answer to my first point...

I mean you are putting forth unrealistic expectations. We are all humans, and people are going to do what they want to.

Awesome. Thank you for driving my point home. Please re-read your emboldened words over and over again till you understand my point.

(For clarity add the words, regardless of what they claim to believe, at the end of your sentence.)

Actually it would be better to leave the "regardless of what they claim to believe" off.

[Epimethean]

Abish, you do love to mix up logic in your arguments, don't you? You still don't get what atheism is and isn't, while many of us here do get what monotheism is and isn't-as well as the various brand names and their respective cachets.

Nothing about atheism is intolerant by nature, although there are plenty of militant, intolerant atheists.

Dissimilarly, monotheism's big three by their very natures are intolerant-and have shown the nastiest aspects of intolerance throughout history. For the sake of argument, albeit in redundant fashion (necessary to get through to you? Probably not, because you don't want to see reason: You have faith instead), christianity has never been a religion of tolerance-nor can it be. That is at odds with its main premise.

Edit: Regarding divinely advocated rape in the bible:

http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm

[Napoléon]

No it isn't you should study up on your fallacies. I never said anything about them being "true Christians". I simply said the bible does not teach that.

And I said it is irrelevant what the bible does or does not teach.

Fact is christians of whatever kind will and have used christianity as a tool to rise above others.

But can you explain to me what you mean by "killed in the name of Christianity"? Is this similar to when our government goes to war and "kills in the name of democracy/freedom"?

No I won't. It has already been explained perfectly by genkaus several posts back.

Yeah and I not surprised that you brought up the Catholic church even though I'M NOT CATHOLIC! You do know that there were other branches of Christianity right?

What does this have to do with anything we are talking about?

Obviously you cannot grasp that there were other branches of Christianity and that the Catholic church forced false doctrines upon the masses. One being you cannot read the bible let alone translate it into English. This is NOT taught anywhere in the bible. You're basically insisting that atheists do bad because political goals and the Catholic church did bad because they wanted to go to heaven. Right...

No that is not 'basically what I'm saying'. Stop misinterpreting my arguments.

Also what is this obsession with the Catholic church. Not all of my points were centred on them. The witch hunting that went on was not strictly catholic. The holocaust was not a Papal initiative etc.

Again, read genkaus' post. It sums up quite well this issue of christians doing bad because of christianity and atheists doing bad supposedly because of atheism. Better so than I can explain to you.

How do you kill in the name of atheism

You don't. That's my point.

and religion?

By forcing them to join your religion or you will kill them? By launching crusades "In the name of Christ". It's not too hard to see how people throughout history have killed in the name of religion. Unless you're blind or deliberately ignorant of fact.

I don't get why a Christian doing bad is Christianity's fault, but an atheist doing bad it is the individual.

You are misunderstanding what anyone here is saying. Again, refer to genkaus' post.

I agree that the individual should be held responsible, but it should go both ways. It is hypocritical to imposed such a double standard.

It is not hypocritical when people send planes into buildings in the name of religion. It is not hypocritical when popes commision crusades in the name of christ. It is not hypocritical when people are burned alive with the belief that they are witches.

Oh is that what I said? Care to quote me on that?

This was what I responded to...
http://atheistforums.org/thread-12704-po...#pid281694

And you responed...
"You miss the point of the post.

The point is that millions (yes millions) of people have died due to christianity, because people refused to believe. They don't necessarily have to be atheist. They could be Jew, Muslim, agnostic whatever. Doesn't matter what label you give them. That's not the point.

The point is that christianity has oppressed others from doing what they want for hundreds of years."

But it was YOU that missed the POINT. I responded to a poster insisting that atheists had horrendous injustices forced upon them. You tried to make it a "everyone had bad done to them" claim. But that was NEVER the issue.

So you are admitting I never made such claims? That you are in fact a liar?

Glad we cleared that up.

I weighed in because you DID miss the point of the poster. Atheists AS WELL AS others have been oppressed throughout history. Obviously you cannot single out 'groups of atheists' because they are not a demographic you can categorize in such a way. But to try and make out like they did not exist is absurd.

The point which again you try to shift as though it doesn't matter, is that millions of people have died in the name of your religion. Both atheist and other.

Now you seem to think the poster was only referring to atheists. I don't see it that way. The integral point of the poster was to show the hypocrisy of you christians complaining that you are oppressed when your religion has been doing much worse throughout the ages.

If you cannot grasp this concept then we should end our discussion here. I have no intention of carrying on with such an imbecile who lets such obvious hypocrisies fly over his head.

Yeah well your point is irrelevant since I never made a case against your generalized "everyone was oppressed". I simply asked for anyone to list 5 atheist that were either "martyred" or received said injustices. Nobody has been able to justify this lie. The best you could do is try to change the subject.

No it's not changing the subject. It's putting shit into perspective. You obviously care more about labelling people than the fact that millions of people regardless of label have died and have been persecuted by christianity.

You make me sick.

Again I will reiterate YOUR point is irrelevant. You are hiding behind a blanketed statement and avoiding the REAL argument.

I find rather it is you hiding behind labels and wording.

Let us cut the bullshit and get down to what the "REAL ARGUMENT" actually is.

Christianity has oppressed people throughout history. People have died as a result of this oppression.

The post in question merely highlighted the hypocrisy of christians feeling oppressed when people throughout the ages have been fucked over, be them atheist or not.

I feel as though I am repeating myself here, but again, if you cannot grasp such a simple point, then I am done talking with you.

our argument is a straw man, so I'm sure it wasn't hard for you to do that. The claim you are making is "everybody had injustices" on the basis that I "misunderstood" the point in the post I replied to. Well if you go back to my first point you will see how this argument is just WRONG.

It is not a straw man when you did misunderstand the point of the post you replied to and you continue to do so. You use a straw man yourself by arguing that we are claiming only atheists have been opressed, when that is (I say it yet again) besides the point of the fucking poster.

I have addressed your first point so we can all clearly see it is you who is in the wrong.

You are misinterpreting my argument (you can decided whether it was intentional or not). Your points are totally irrelevant (but you only made one and that was that "everybody had injustices force upon them"). But my point I made in MY first post has been totally IGNORED by YOU.

It has not been ignored. I stated in my very first reply to you that what you were asking for was besides the point.

I must of repeated myself every single time I have posted since and have repeated myself several times in this fucking response alone.

It is in fact yourself who is ignoring the point in favour of what you want to hear. Tough shit. I gave you a comprehensive list. I explained why asking for atheists names alone was pointless and irrelevent. But you cling on because you think that your point has some kind of relevance. I explained why it doesn't, why it is besides the point.

Jesus christ you really don't get the fucking message do you.

[Minimalist]

I say this because atheists do not allow any religious symbol or activity in any public place.

I've told you this about a thousand times before, Arch. "Keep your bullshit in your homes and churches and you'll have no problem from me."

There is no reason for non-xtians to be subjected to your fucking bullshit everytime they walk into a public place. Are you so insecure that you cannot bear for a moment to be away from the sight of your silly-assed religion?

[Aegrus]

The term is "Per Capita". Do more atheists per capita commit crimes than believers? - is the question.

See you're doing too. Our friend Tempus used that argument to belittle Christian charitable works. Christians represent a larger % of the population in correlation to atheist therefore they should have more charitable works. Why doesn't this apply to your "per capita" argument about crimes. Atheists represent a smaller % of the population in correlation to Christians therefore they should commit less crimes. It goes both ways.

Ah, but it does. Atheist make up 10% of the U.S population. They commit only 2% of crimes. We are winning per capita.

[Abishalom]

@Napolean I am not going to respond to your entire post but I will address a few main points.
First this is what I replied to...



...where in this message did you get the idea that it was saying "everyone had injustices to them". It CLEARLY singles out atheists. You are just making a strawman.

Second, here is what genkaus said...

No, Christians do wrong because the bible tells them to. Certain atheists do wrong because of the political philosophy they espouse tells them to. Thus, they are not doing wrong in their capacity as atheists but their capacity as communists, fascists etc. What is to be considered the cause of their wrong-doing is determined by what they use to justify it. Catholic church used Christianity to justify their actions, but Pol Pot and Mao did not use their atheism as justification.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is what I said...

SO let me get this right...Christians do wrong because the bible tells them to do wrong and atheists do wrong because of the individual and not atheism. That looks like a double standard to me. It is what it is though.

Do you see the resemblance (apparently not)? All he did was repeat my statement and dress up the part about atheists. That still does not answer my question about "killing in the name of Christianity". You claim that it is political reasons and not their lack of belief in God for atheists that leads them to do evil things (oh and you had to put emphasis on it being just "certain" atheist ie no true Scotsman) but Christians (no emphasis on "certain" or "just some" more like insinuating "all") are just following a book when they do evil things that just happened to result in them having political power (coincidence I guess). Apparently only atheist can have political reasons...

[Aegrus]

The word intolerance gets thrown around a lot. I personally think that many atheists are intolerant of Christians. But what fundie morons seem to miss is that there is a marked difference between being intolerant of people for holding different beliefs or having a different skin color, and being intolerant of people because they are are batshit insane, psychopathic worshippers of a mass murderer who commands the destruction of every group he doesn't like.

If I were to protest black people, I would be a bigoted dick because black people are mentally no different than white people. The only difference is skin color. Both black people and white people are typically moral, and not psychopathic murderers. They don't as a rule promote intolerance and hatred.

If I were to protest, say, Agnostics, I would be a bigoted dick, because agnosticism, like black skin, does not result in mass murder and bigotry. There is a difference between being intolerant of a non-harmful belief or physical trait, and being intolerant of a proven-negative one. Nazism is a world view. If I protest Nazism, then I am technically intolerant. Of Nazis. That is not a negative thing.

And when I protest Christians? Christians, who have not only proven time and again throughout history that they will try to exterminate peaceful opposing groups, but who also continue witch hunts and murder in Africa to this day? Christians, who by DEFINITION listen to a book that tells them to kill homosexuals and nonbelievers, which states that women are property?

When I protest Christians, I'm doing the world a service. I'm intolerant of Christians, yes. For the same reason I'm intolerant of Nazis. That is not a negative thing.

[Epimethean]

Christianity: 2,000 years and still clueless.