Banning the Burqa?

[Shell B]

I already argued the burka issue, guy. Go back and reread the thread if you're not following.

As for Tiberius' "lack of logic" or whatever other such nonsense you just pulled out of your ass, I'll let him hash that out with you. He hardly needs me to prove his worth for him.

[Jinkies]

I already argued the burka issue, guy. Go back and reread the thread if you're not following.

I guess we have different definitions of "convincing," gui.

[NoMoreFaith]

Again, you ignore the fact I didn't make an analogy. If I can't even get through to you on that due to your bias and lack of reading comprehension skills, I'm certainly not wasting time on anything else.

I disagree, and I have stated my reasons for doing so. If you are not making a comparison, then you should at least admit that it was completely non-sequitor to the comment you were responding to.

This is irrelevant, once again you're focusing on a single semantic to avoid trying to refute the actual arguments again. Are you sure you're not a creationist?

What bias are you talking about exactly? That I do not believe that burkas should be legislated against?
Is having any opinion that does not correlate with your own constitute an unreasonable bias now?

Seriously. No fucking around.

You list reason, and logic stating why it should be legislated against, and I will list reasons and logic stating why it should not. For and Against. No requirement to stoop to irrational name calling, just argument vs argument.

You're clearly passionate about the topic, which is great, as I am passionate about the rejection of government legislation on the burka.

The fact that your refusal to engage in a debate was on grounds that I am biased and allegedly illiterate should be all the more reason for you to prove that you can present solid reason and logic behind your own views.

There is no winner or loser in a debate, merely an opportunity for you to clarify your argument in full, and I can do likewise, and serve to express more fully the points raised for and against the motion. As you have stated time and time again, your views should be held entirely up to logic and reason, there is no need to fear the playing field.
Even if I were biased and demonstrated a failure to comprehend the argument, this will only strengthen your case.

Debate Topic: Should the Burka be an illegal item of clothing? For and Against

Definitions;
Burka - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa
Illegal - Specifically legislated against by Law. Law of which country to be agreed mutually.

I am willing to accept the replacement of Burka with full facial Hijab for the sake of clarity on the main point of contention.

Personally, I think you're full of hot air, prone to explosive appeals to emotion, personal attacks, endless prevarication on semantics and incapable of conducting yourself in a rational and logical manner in an argument, and this would allow you to at least prove me wrong in that respect.

If you wish to refuse, no hard feelings, I hate it when people use a refusal to debate as an uncontested win, which isn't necessarily the case, and I promise I won't stoop to accuse you of it, but I think it would be a great opportunity for you to display the logic and reason you claim to extol.

[Shell B]

I already argued the burka issue, guy. Go back and reread the thread if you're not following.

I guess we have different definitions of "convincing," gui.

I didn't realize I had to convince you. You are talking about stripping people of rights in order to create your idea of utopia. Everyone does it. Why should you be immune? Still, it doesn't excuse that your argument is a contradiction. Do go ahead and dismiss my opinion and continue to delude yourself.

[Jinkies]

You said the words between those quotation marks, right? I never said you said them alone. I said that they are illogical and irrational. No context makes that stop being true. Those words, which you wrote, promote blind respect toward customs and religions. You can twist and twist as much as you want and you will never change that.

No, those words do not promote blind respect towards customs and religions. I made sure I put them in the right context, and I even mentioned exceptions.

I'll go ahead and give you benefit of the doubt and say that you did not mean what you wrote originally. Fuck if I know how you can't see how illogical that statement is, though. I guess you'd die defending it simply because it's yours, regardless of how indefensible it is.

Please put that bit I responded to, the bit in quotes, into its full context for me so that it makes logical, rational sense.

My entire quote was "Yes, when needed then of course face coverings should be removed, but customs and religions should be respected.". This was in addition to my arguments about why the burqa should not be banned, and in addition to my stipulation that there were exceptions. Please, if you think my arguments are illogical or irrational, point out where they are. By that, I mean you should show me the logical fallacies I am using, preferably in some logical form. Note, the phrase "but customs and religions should be respected" is not an argument on its own; it is simply an addendum to my argument about why the burqa should be allowed.

Bolded for emphasis again.

You state a position on respecting customs and religions, yet you don't say why they should be respected. If you don't see how your words promote blind respect, well, at least I don't have to fucking live like that. Ignorance must be straight tits.

I'm out. Feel free to get the last word and tell me how my logical fallacies raped your mother or whatever.

---

You're clearly passionate about the topic, which is great, as I am passionate about the rejection of government legislation on the burka.

Actually, I don't really give a shit about burqas. I care about logic. You may notice that apart from my first post, I never talked about banning burqas, only Ti's weakass attempts at logic. My opinion on burqas is like my opinions on daycare - I guess I have one, but meh.

[NoMoreFaith]

Actually, I don't really give a shit about burqas. I care about logic. You may notice that apart from my first post, I never talked about banning burqas, only Ti's weakass attempts at logic. My opinion on burqas is like my opinions on daycare - I guess I have one, but meh.

Man up and prove it then. Debate me on the topic if your logic and reason is irrefutable on the subject.

The forum members here are excellent at reading between the lines and spotting faulty arguments, you can let your arguments speak for themselves in the knowledge that those reading them will be able to consider what you propose for themselves in the spirit of free thinking.

I've sent you a PM to propose the topic, as per above.

[Tiberius]

I'll go ahead and give you benefit of the doubt and say that you did not mean what you wrote originally.

Bullshit. I meant what I said, you read it wrong either by accident or on purpose in order to create a strawman. You don't get to decide what I meant.

Fuck if I know how you can't see how illogical that statement is, though. I guess you'd die defending it simply because it's yours, regardless of how indefensible it is.

You haven't pointed out any logical fallacies I've committed; you've just labelled it as illogical. I'll stop defending it when you start presenting an actual refutation.

You state a position on respecting customs and religions, yet you don't say why they should be respected.

I spent the entire first part of the thread arguing why we shouldn't impede on people's rights to wear what they want or act how they like. If you had any doubt though, you should have asked me rather than burst onto the scene saying "THAT'S ILLOGICAL!!!", knowing full well that it wasn't since it's not even an argument.

If you don't see how your words promote blind respect, well, at least I don't have to fucking live like that. Ignorance must be straight tits.

My words were that we should respect customs and religions in regard to wearing stuff. I then went on to say that there were exceptions, like when identity must be obtained. The mere fact that I allow for exceptions negates your accusation that it is "blind" respect.

[Jinkies]

If you don't see how your words promote blind respect, well, at least I don't have to fucking live like that. Ignorance must be straight tits.

My words were that we should respect customs and religions in regard to wearing stuff. I then went on to say that there were exceptions, like when identity must be obtained. The mere fact that I allow for exceptions [b]negates your accusation that it is "blind" respect.[/b]

Just pointing out, since you explicitly asked me to post again, that the statement you made that I responded to did not allow for exceptions. That's why I called it illogical. As for the specific fallacy you're guilty of, it's a type of appeal to tradition. Do you seriously expect me to drop the names of every specific fallacy I see someone commit, though?

If you had any doubt though, you should have asked me rather than burst onto the scene saying "THAT'S ILLOGICAL!!!", knowing full well that it wasn't since it's not even an argument.

See, that's how you do it. Call the enemy a liar. That'll show the fucker!

I'm seriously going to go rape some mothers with my logical fallacies now, and I won't be brought back again by your dirty, dirty ways.

[Shell B]

My, how histrionic. *yawn*

[kılıç_mehmet]

You know I hate it when I HAVE to agree with you kilic.

Having said that; of the few Islamic women I have spoken to IRL, many look askance at my inquiry to the whole "Burqa" issue. On the net I find that the countries of origin are also active in banning the item of clothing as backward and sexist, totally inappropriate with the 21st Century and current situations in these countries. Not being able to investigate this further on a personal level is why I must resort to these findings.

I have extensively researched Islamic history, and I know about moslem customs from a variaty of moslem peoples. I know those who are historically "sedentary" tend to have a large population who wear the jilbab, those who were traditionally not so, tended to have much smaller populations, generally confined to urban areas.