Why militant?

[Kyuuketsuki]

Nah,it's a false dichotomy,on which I thought you'd pounce. It's just as likely that my view is skewed because I'm a nasty cynical old prick. I accept there are altruistic acts,but not that there is any such creature as an altruistic human being. Of course I may be wrong; I'll let you know should I ever meet one.

But to be fair here, I never said I was altruistic (I don't believe in it either), I said I care which happens to be true and not (IMO) disingenuous.

Kyu

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Try me on for size Padraic Wink - if others are happy then I'm happy. I like to have fun of course - but if 'all is well' then I'm well (unless I'm physically unwell or something, of course). If that's not aultruistic then I don't know what is; and then I guess I'm not Confused Smile

If you do what you see as good because it makes you happy,you are guilty of altruistic acts,but remain an egoist.(acting from self interest) An altruist does good because it is right and for no other reason.For an altruist, one's own feelings are irrelevant. Hence my long held conclusion that there are indeed altruistic acts,millions of 'em (I've even been guilty myself on the odd occasion) BUT I have not yet met a consistently altruistic human being as far as I know--to be fair,there's no way of knowing for sure.--WE can never be sure of a person's motives no matter what they may claim, but we can judge behaviour to some extent.


As a general principle I avoid people who feel the need to claim a virtue or deny a vice. So far,in my life,without exception,such people have been lying,if only to themselves. This an observation of human beings,not a moral judgment. Now,please don't think I'm accusing you of being a liar or deluded.I am not.For all I know,you may be the exception.

[Edwardo Piet]

No the happiness I get from it is of course a by-product. I'd rather others were happy than myself. Why should I put myself above others when there are so many other people than me(?)

I get cranky sometimes of course (I'm only human) - but whether I'm happy or not, I'd rather others were happy than not.

I don't put myself above or behind people. I put myself on the same level...and I 'demote' myself if I feel guilty and I 'demote' others if they're being very disrespectful, and if not for the good of others or myself - for the good of that very person to perhaps 'teach them a lesson'--however small of course--by showing them I'm not going to respect them if they're going to be disrespectful...etc, etc.

Of course I'm not totally consistent. Like I said - I'm only human. But I would think I am at least at heart...and I try to be.

And if I am indeed actually 'in denial'...then if that ever turns out to be the case at least I will have learnt something about myself, have something to work on - and hopefully somehow be able to learn to be altruistic for real from then on

I think to be kind to others it takes an understanding of others (empathy etc) - and to do this it's important to have an understanding of yourself first. Those who put others totally before themselves (rather than on even keel...not behind not in front) - I do think often are doing so simply because of guilt of whatever...and anyway - why should you be unkind to yourself either?

At heart I would hope I am altruistic . So if I'm not always in practice I'd claim I am in principle (however you interpret that) - I try.

EvF

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

But to be fair here, I never said I was altruistic

Oh,in that case; I misunderstood, I apologise. As it turns out,there are a lot of things I care about too.I tend to get confused about what things I can actually do anything about.That makes me frustrated,and behave like a nasty old prick.

--I think I'd probably feel a lot better if I managed to consistently to live up to my own standards.

---

I think to be kind to others it takes an understanding of others (empathy etc) - and to do this it's important to have an understanding of yourself first

I agree.I also must confess empathy is often hard fort me. Especially myself to myself,if that makes sense..

One of the few truly wise people I've met told me the greatest good one can do and a secret of happiness is service to others. IE to become other centered rather self centred.



The wise man was an American and a Sufi I met in London.--Perhaps one of the reasons I become so angry when people vilify the whole of Islam and/or all Muslims. Or the whole of Christianity or Judaism for that matter. Bigotry bothers me,both my own and that of others.

[Pippy]

Hey guys,

I feel it is important to me too add my own point herein. This is something I remember discussing with Kyu long ago, about how we are similar as truth seekers, but different in our conclusions. For the record, I am militant (a strong word, but most appropriate in this case) about my faith for the same reasons. I hunger for truth, and I long for the honest answer. I am terminally curious, and also agree with what was stated earlier about the seeming need to learn literally as much as possible. I could get jumped on because you all don't like the answers I hold to be true, but our motivators are the same.

You never came across as mean, even too my beliefs EvF. You are thourough and sharp-witted, but I may not have seen the meaner side you mentioned. Should I quote scripture as proof? hehehe

That is all I wanted to say. That I too am a truth-seeker, I have just found different truth than you guys. Thank again for listening.

"Seems they were all, rank strangers to me",
-Pip

[leo-rcc]

There is no such thing as a different truth.

[Pippy]

Again,

Well Leo, then one of us must be plain wrong. I say different truth to be polite because I obviously think your truths are incorrect at best (at whichever point we disagree)... You would think my truth to be incorrect at the same time. But I agree that it is wordplay, and there is only one truth (outside of our heads).

I only want to point out the similarities we share as a group of people. Being a (self-supposed) truth seeker is a strong one.

Thank you for helping me clarify.
"Methinks it is like a weasel",
-Pip

[leo-rcc]

Well Leo, then one of us must be plain wrong. I say different truth to be polite because I obviously think your truths are incorrect at best

Indeed, so do me a favour and instead of going out of your way to be "polite" try to write what you really think on a subject next time.

[g-mark]

But I agree that it is wordplay, and there is only one truth (outside of our heads).

Thw world makes people angry upset, judgemental, arrogant and selfish. We are not born that way. We learn it. It is the way the adults are.

You both a probably wrong. We all are probably wrong!!!

[Ryft]

It would seem that "militant" conveys the impression of being closed-minded—no matter what one is militant about. It is of course debatable whether or not that is what militancy means; nevertheless, that is the impression it gives. To be militant about a view is to hold that view come what may. And some people (like my dad, who is a militant atheist) certainly intend this meaning.

That being said, I don't find much value either epistemically or morally in being closed-minded. Very early in my philosophical development I learned to not only appreciate being proved wrong but to seek it out and embrace it. If something I believed was wrong, I wanted to know. A belief that is quarantined is not falsifiable. If reason dictates that one should not hold false views, then doesn't that carry a mandate to discover and weed out any false beliefs one might hold? And doesn't that, therefore, require vigilance in staying open to competing views and criticisms?

If human infallibility is a delusion, then I don't think anyone can afford militancy in their beliefs. In the words of G.K. Chesterton, "Bigotry is an incapacity to conceive seriously the alternative to a proposition. It has nothing whatever to do with belief in the proposition itself." This is of course my own perspective. I realize there may be people out there who do think it's impossible for their view to be wrong (be what it may). I lived with one, after all. I cannot agree with such people, but that hardly matters to them.

Here is a question that occurs to me: If you are militant about some view and engage people with differing views, are you not shoving your beliefs down their throat? Or are you merely exposing yourself to the ironic hypocrisy of thinking that they should be open to questioning their beliefs and ideas?