Cutting the head off Medusa

[frankiej]

I think brian has lost it...

No I have not "lost it". Please show me where in any of my posts I have made either demands or threats? Saying that no one deserves taboo status and no one is special on a planet of 7 billion, and no one has the right to be free from being offended, is not "losing it".

Dude, you are way too fucking serious. Take a joke, man.

[Brian37]

No I have not "lost it". Please show me where in any of my posts I have made either demands or threats? Saying that no one deserves taboo status and no one is special on a planet of 7 billion, and no one has the right to be free from being offended, is not "losing it".

Dude, you are way too fucking serious. Take a joke, man.

Text is sometimes hard to interpret inflection, so sorry if I misunderstood this post.

But I am serious about warning people that it is a bad tactic of trying to silence offensive words, from anyone's side, believers or atheists. The problem long term will always be "who gets to decide" and since power shifts over time when you do that, you can potentially make a power so static and unchanging, and what if when that happens that power in charge find something you have to say "offensive".

Anyone who knows me or spends time with me knows I don't take myself seriously, even if I do take certain claims and topics seriously. This is one I do take seriously because even just an attitude towards life can and does affect politics, and since our diverse society lives under the same government, and as being an atheist living in a theist world, I'd be a fool not to take it seriously.

Outside this particular issue you wont find a more self deprecating silly cornball. My mother fed me lead paint and called them corn flakes. So it depends what we are being "serious" about.

[frankiej]

Don't worry, you haven't been here long, so you probably haven't noticed that I say nothing serious.

And on that note, everything makes sense....forever...

[Brian37]

Don't worry, you haven't been here long, so you probably haven't noticed that I say nothing serious.

And on that note, everything makes sense....forever...

Oh don't get me wrong, as people are finding out in my short time here I do have fangs and do use them, but again, not in attacking people, but in attacking claims people make. I really can like someone who believes something I find absurd, on one issue. If I tried to isolate myself from everyone who held an absurd belief, I could not have a relationship with my Catholic mother. I could not have my job. I would have to live on an island bu by myself.

No human, not even me, is capable of being rational 100% of the time on all subjects all the time.

Christians have the saying "Love the sinner not the sin"

I say "Love the claimant, not the claim".

I am sure to drive people nuts here, but only in the sense that I want people to be unafraid to question, even if it makes them uncomfortable. I value that much more than fearing what I say to others or what they may say to me.

When I am not being serious I most certainly don't want any atheist or theist taking me seriously. I fart, shit and pee and tell bad jokes like everyone else. I am not super human by any stretch.

[frankiej]

I fart, shit and pee and tell bad jokes like everyone else.

Well, you can't be referring to me in that "everyone else"... my jokes are good.

[Brian37]

I fart, shit and pee and tell bad jokes like everyone else.

Well, you can't be referring to me in that "everyone else"... my jokes are good.

That is what they all say, but very few people can tell such a bad joke they can keep optometrists in business from all the treatment they have to give because my jokes get people's irises stuck in the back of their heads from the eye rolling.

And my bad jokes are sooo bad I am the single cause for the most hits for the google search "hit man", because when I shoot one off everyone says to themselves "SOMEONE PLEASE SHOOT HIM"!

At work I cannot tell you how many times I get the "why did I bother asking" look.

[Faith No More]

But do you not see that calling someone something like an 'ignorant fucktard' is counterproductive to your goal of ridding the world of silly superstition? I would never advocate you have to censor yourself(except if you violate the rules here), but I think you are ignoring the issue of how important choice of words and tact are to convincing people to let go of their dogma. You are more than free to call them fucking idiots, just don't think it will ever do any good as it will mostly likely cause harm to your goals..

[Brian37]

But do you not see that calling someone something like an 'ignorant fucktard' is counterproductive to your goal of ridding the world of silly superstition? I would never advocate you have to censor yourself(except if you violate the rules here), but I think you are ignoring the issue of how important choice of words and tact are to convincing people to let go of their dogma. You are more than free to call them fucking idiots, just don't think it will ever do any good as it will mostly likely cause harm to your goals..

How is calling someone who deserves it, like the homophobe who reciently used his pulpit to make the claim gays should be arrested be any value? If it motivates gays to unite against that "fucktard" why wouldn't that work?

Do you think men who publicly execute women during halftime at a soccer game deserve value? Do you think murdering women because they wont enter a pre arranged marriage deserves value?

When people are that far gone and willing to kill over it, it wouldn't matter how polite your objections are. Ayaan Hersi Ali made a documentary with a film maker about the abuse of Muslim women. He was murdered and a note stabbed in his chest with "you're next" aimed at her. There was no cussing in that documentary. She still receives death threats.

You wont reach those nuts in any case. Blasphemy and ridicule ESPECIALLY of those who are that far gone is a useful tool to put them in their place. And it can and does undermine the absolute power by planting thoughts in the heads of those under them that may say "yea, you are being an asshole".

I am always willing to be polite depending on context, but I am not going to shy away from calling a dick a dick, especially if they are a violent dick.

Neither all polite are all "in your face" work as absolutes individually. Life is a range, not a script and people react differently. If my saying something like "Hey Muslim men, stop being dicks to your women by treating them like property" and some women in a Muslim community says by reading this "He's right, I don't have to put up with this". Then my harsh words have helped someone and fuck the dicks who would hurt her for questioning them.

It is not either or for me, it always depends on context.

I find it funny that people while Hitchens was alive people accused him of what you are accusing me of here. Not once in any of his books did he call names or cuss people out, and did not do that on tv either, even while in debate.

Yet he was a best selling author and admired by even the theists he worked with at Vanity Fair, and upon his death was given kind words even by his detractors.

His common metaphor which I think is apt describing heaven as a "celestial North Korea", even without cussing is enough to bring Christians to rage. My point is SO WHAT.

I am sure there were quite many Christian men who wanted Susan B Anthony to "shut the fuck up bitch", and if thought they could get away with it, might have murdered her. I am glad she thought better of humanity and was brave enough to make waves.

Sometimes a dick is a dick and sometimes these dicks will hate you no matter what tactic you take.

Read "Infidel" by Ayaan Hersi Ali and "The End of Faith" by Sam Harris if you want to know why I am so harsh on irrational claims. Mature adults, even if they wish I would chose different words for my message, wont treat others like Ayaan was treated, and wont do what "The End Of Faith" depicts in the beginning of the book.

You are always going to have nuts who won't listen. But if I can empower someone who otherwise is demonized in the society the live in and "fuck you" motivates them to stand up for themselves, it works, and despite what you may think, it has worked.

[Faith No More]

How is calling someone who deserves it, like the homophobe who reciently used his pulpit to make the claim gays should be arrested be any value? If it motivates gays to unite against that "fucktard" why wouldn't that work?

Do you honestly think that you would need to unite gays against a homophobe, and that somehow using the term 'fucktard' would work?

Do you think men who publicly execute women during halftime at a soccer game deserve value? Do you think murdering women because they wont enter a pre arranged marriage deserves value?

No, I do not, but then again, I also don't think they're worth debating. What relevance does that have to do with you think calling them names would be productive?

You wont reach those nuts in any case. Blasphemy and ridicule ESPECIALLY of those who are that far gone is a useful tool to put them in their place.

Really? How does balsphemy and ridicule put them in prison?

I'm not saying you shouldn't call a dick a dick, just that hurling insults at everyone with silly beliefs is not going to be productive to your cause.

[Brian37]

You still miss my point. There is no absolute "right way". CONTEXT matters and is what determines if I will be polite, or say "fuck you".

If someone is a violent dick, or oppressing someone within their society, I have no qualms about cussing those assholes out.

But if you think simply because I may cuss an individual out, or warn someone of the dangers of religion means every religious person will hate me, is absurd. There are plenty of believers who think men who treat women like property deserve condemnation and plenty willing to cuss those dicks out like I do.

Your intent of "only say nice things" is utopian and does not nor ever fit a complex world.

There are are few ways to say "The moon is not made of cheese" When putting like that and someone still reacts violently, what do you do then?

And how are you doing any oppressed minority, like women in Afghanistan by coddling the sexism of the men who rule over them with an iron fist?

Muslim women here can and will read this and that message gets sent back to the east and their relatives. And even with cussing, I have also cussed out the assholes who objected to the Mosque in NY, not because I agree with the faith of Islam, but hate the fact that we have a Constitution that protects freedom of religion and there are still pricks living here willing to shit on that concept.

Your problem is that you need to learn to separate issues. And that is how we can undermine set thinking, by showing people that there is no one way to view things.

There are theists I have blasted. In fact one thread on another website that has gone on for 5 years. Now in that context I attacked his claims, not him the person. He didn't run away and was NOT a violent prick and never threatened me, so in that context I had no need or desire to call him a fucktard, although I still think anyone with a deity belief is full of shit, he certainly knew that I felt that way, not about him, but about his claims. He threw his jabs ad my positions and I threw mine at his and sometimes it was not pretty. But I never hated him, and I am sure he does not hate me.

I think you do minorities and even theists in the majority a disservice by thinking everyone who gets confrontational has a glass jaw and will kill over it.

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silly beliefs

Those words alone contain no cussing, but I doubt you could go up to the Imam of Iran and call his beliefs "silly".

In the west we have learned that we cant beat the shit out of someone for merely saying things that offend us. Maybe if we demonstrated that concept here, it could catch on there, otherwise you are coddling the insecurities of that Imam who would have you put to death for calling his beliefs "silly".

"Silly" to a nutjob is no different than saying "fuck".

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Oh and my Catholic mother has heard me say "fuck god" but understood when I did it I was not saying "lets go kill all believers". She new in that context when I used it as part of an example, AGREED with me that merely being offended is not a license to demand silence of others or physically harm them.

And I read the op to her and her only objection to it were the words "especially atheists". Other than that, she liked it.

So your assertion that people will always have a glass jaw is baseless and for the people who do, those people wont listen to you no matter how polite you try to object to their claims.

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EDIT I WAS TRYING TO QUOTE ANOTHER PERSON IN THIS THREAD AND THE FOLLOWING MERELY GOT ADDED TO MY LAST POST INSTEAD OF MAKING A NEW POST.

Wow, if the hypocrisy were any thicker it would put a hole in the ozone layer beyond what human pollution has done.

Now you just cussed at someone. My point is so what. Do you see me demanding you censor yourself? The mature people on this website should be, and or more concerned with your argument than your word choice. And the other mature thing they can do is put you on ignore, or simply not respond to your posts. But how is it I can accept that it is not my right to tell you how to respond to others, but you cant grasp that concept yourself.

And I too am with the others here who say, I am not entitled to make people like me, they either will or they wont, it's called reality.

If I had a nickle for everyone who called equated me to Stalin or called me immoral or cussed me out because they don't like atheists, I'd make Bill Gates look like a wino bumb. But that is reality, deal with it instead of insisting people be a clone of you.