(June 11, 2012 at 11:10 am)StatCrux Wrote: I now accept atheists are quite rude and abusive for no particular reason, your "fuck you" being a perfect example..

What? Because a few people told you to fuck off??? Generalisation much?
I thought that a Jesus freak would know better.

I love the feigned indignity of believers. They want us to believe, but don't want to do anything to prove it.

Seriously, when anyone OF ANY LABEL says "don't pick on my pet god claim". I get the image of a midget standing spread eagle in front of the Terminator shouting "don't pick on my god, you might hurt him".

This is nothing more than their ego being bruised out of the fear of being wrong. Being wrong isn't the end of the world. When one accepts that, it is how humanity grows.

If a "fuck you" was the worst any human out of our 7 billion had to worry about, that would be an improvement over our stupid childish tribal beefs that do end up in death.

I'd suggest to those "offended" to stop worrying about word choice and worry about your own position and work on defending it, if you can and be willing to give up on it if you cant.

(June 11, 2012 at 11:23 am)Brian37 Wrote: I love the feigned indignity of believers. They want us to believe, but don't want to do anything to prove it.

Seriously, when anyone OF ANY LABEL says "don't pick on my pet god claim". I get the image of a midget standing spread eagle in front of the Terminator shouting "don't pick on my god, you might hurt him".

This is nothing more than their ego being bruised out of the fear of being wrong. Being wrong isn't the end of the world. When one accepts that, it is how humanity grows.

If a "fuck you" was the worst any human out of our 7 billion had to worry about, that would be an improvement over our stupid childish tribal beefs that do end up in death.

I'd suggest to those "offended" to stop worrying about word choice and worry about your own position and work on defending it, if you can and be willing to give up on it if you cant.

It has nothing to do with the subject matter, or "picking on God". Its about how people communicate with mutual respect. If a police officer stopped you and said "where the fuck are you going, show me your papers right now you moron!" that's not how people should behave towards one another. CIVILITY COSTS NOTHING

(June 11, 2012 at 11:31 am)StatCrux Wrote: It has nothing to do with the subject matter, or "picking on God". Its about how people communicate with mutual respect.

Respect must be earned. Politeness, however, is different from respect. I think might be what you really mean.

Let's see if we might be able to explain this another way. Would it be preferable for me to lie to the idiot proposing zombies? Should I feign interest?

"No Rhythm you should have a thoughtful and well reasoned conversation with said idiot before dismissing their idiotic claims"

Are we willing to pretend that this hasn't already been attempted?

(did one of our resident believers in the tyrant god just invoke civility......?)

The only time I see rudeness as a proper response is when you are responding to rudeness.

(June 11, 2012 at 11:31 am)StatCrux Wrote:

(June 11, 2012 at 11:23 am)Brian37 Wrote: I love the feigned indignity of believers. They want us to believe, but don't want to do anything to prove it.

Seriously, when anyone OF ANY LABEL says "don't pick on my pet god claim". I get the image of a midget standing spread eagle in front of the Terminator shouting "don't pick on my god, you might hurt him".

This is nothing more than their ego being bruised out of the fear of being wrong. Being wrong isn't the end of the world. When one accepts that, it is how humanity grows.

If a "fuck you" was the worst any human out of our 7 billion had to worry about, that would be an improvement over our stupid childish tribal beefs that do end up in death.

I'd suggest to those "offended" to stop worrying about word choice and worry about your own position and work on defending it, if you can and be willing to give up on it if you cant.

It has nothing to do with the subject matter, or "picking on God". Its about how people communicate with mutual respect. If a police officer stopped you and said "where the fuck are you going, show me your papers right now you moron!" that's not how people should behave towards one another. CIVILITY COSTS NOTHING

No, I started this thread. And I have made over 200 posts in my two weeks here, so anyone reading them knows already what they are getting into.

If I came into YOUR house and you don't smoke and started smoking you'd have every right to ask me to quit. But no one is forcing you to respond to this thread.

Now, please explain to me, why claims BY THEMSELVES should be given taboo status?

If I claimed that the moon was made of cheese should the claim be off limits, even if you agree with my right to claim it?

Go back and read WHY I hate the word "respect". Human rights should be respected. But civility is not based on forcing everyone only to say nice things and never offend anyone. That is what Iran expects from it's non Shiites and non-Muslims, but neither you or I would want to live there.

Civility is based on common law, not common likes or dislikes. Civility can only be the agreement that no one has the right to physically harm, or call for the physical harm of others. But I am as so any believer has the right to offend others and question others. I warn you that it is a bad idea to demand silence because you have an emotional reaction to what someone else says.

YES civility is a good goal, censorship is not the way to do it, because that gets into "who gets to decide" what is or is not offensive. As an atheist living in a theist world I am not going to hand the loaded gun of censorship over to my government.

Instead of making demands on me about what I say, stick to your own comfort level. No one is telling you how to deal with others and I wont judge you for taking a different approach. But do not speak for me.

I have met plenty of theists who don't mind the verbal boxing ring, and I have also met atheists who are just as well intended, but wrong headed with the "cant we all just get along" cry.

If you don't like my posts, you know what the options are, but do not assume because someone does believe, that they will always run screaming because of what I say.

If we want theists to see us as individuals then neither of us should demand the other be a clone of the other. You do your thing and I will do mine. There is nothing wrong with the "library" setting. But don't assume everyone, atheists or theists for that matter, cant take the heat.

I value more the believer that is secure in making their arguments than any atheist or believer that demands my silence because they merely got offended.

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god, for if there be one, surely he would pay more homage to reason than to that of blindfolded fear" Thomas Jefferson

"The first person to hurl an insult instead of a stone, started civilization" Freud.

I don't fear being offended by anything any theist has to say. I've been equated to Hitler, and Stalin, and been called immoral for not believing. They can shout that from the rooftops all they want. And I can, with the same venues counter their absurdities. And the only way I can maintain that ability is to value their rights as well.

When you demand that no one offend anyone else you give that society the ability to set up a taboo, and in the hands of history there are results that neither they or we should ever want.

No one here is advocating hate, especially not me. But I do have every right to hate a claim, ON ANY SUBJECT, not just religion, and still like the person, even if I don't like that particular claim.

(June 11, 2012 at 1:17 pm)Brian37 Wrote: No one here is advocating hate, especially not me. But I do have every right to hate a claim, ON ANY SUBJECT, not just religion, and still like the person, even if I don't like that particular claim.

No, of course not. That explains why you came into a thread on FallenToReason's views on deism, and made two personal attacks on me, simply because I am religious — comments that had absolutely nothing to do with what was being discussed.

You may say you hate the claims and not the person, but your actions show that you're an ignorant, lying dickwad.

I'm gonna print that card out on some really nice cardstock..for sure.

(June 11, 2012 at 9:49 am)frankiej Wrote: I think brian has lost it...

No I have not "lost it". Please show me where in any of my posts I have made either demands or threats? Saying that no one deserves taboo status and no one is special on a planet of 7 billion, and no one has the right to be free from being offended, is not "losing it".

I value the intent of the well intended "cant we all just get along". And the answer to that is YES, we can. Where I part company is tactic as to how to maintain civility.

It is a bad idea to try to insist on humans never being offensive. Context of situation is the only guide as to how we chose to interact with others. I do not value "never" as a solution everywhere all the time.

In context of this thread, I started it. And people have had more than enough time to know my style and how I interact with others. If the government were forcing someone to read my posts, then they'd have a case. But as long as this board will have me, both I and all those who post here are only limited to the rules of the board and the comfort level of the board owners.

I'd say they are being fair, especially in having an ignore function, although I never use it myself.

Civility isn't about demanding people only say nice things. Civility is knowing we are responsible for our own reactions, and cannot be the thought police of the world.