Is becoming like God good or evil?

[Reforged]

Well one second, thats a contradiction. You said Adam and Eve had to commit an act of evil (eating an apple, really?) to gain morale sense like God and then you say "God wants us to live as close to the standard that is who God is".
Well obviously not otherwise he wouldn't of forbidden the eating of the apple in the first place and even if this was the case according to you its an act of evil. Unless of course you're saying hes changed his stance on the matter. At that point I would have to ask how an omnipotent being that already knows everything about everything throughout eternity would change his stance about anything.
You could also be saying thats hes gone "Oh well, they've done it now. Might as well finish what they started." but again, he must of known all of this millennia in advance and this would make your morality interchangeable on Gods whim. How do you determine Gods whim? Based on this circumstance the whole Bible could be completely outdated, maybe hes re-evaluated everything. I mean the whole idea is filled with so many holes its absurd.
If hes all knowing and has been for all time and would already have come to his decisions about everything then no mind-changing is required. If we ignore that then this entails his morale views are subject to change at a moments notice which would make it an immensely bad idea to assert certainty about the morality of any action.
Which is it?

For someone who claimed (key word claimed) you know little if any thing about God and His scriptures. Adam and eve sinned because they disobeyed God, God made it clear there would be consequences to this action and there was. God has never changed His mind, and God needs not to prove things to Himself, He is proving to creation that God is absolutely righteous and just.

Read the Bible cover to cover so yeah, I know a fair bit about your religion. I would appreciate it if everytime I came up with a good point that makes you look horribly misinformed you'd stop blaming it, somewhat predictably, on *my* lack of knowledge. It doesn't logically follow and it only serves to make you look rather childish.

Now to point out the obvious. God is omnipotent, therefore he knows how everythings going to turn out. He knew they'd take the apple.
What was the point in putting it there in the first place?
And before you say it was a test, it was a test he already knew the results to so that doesn't explain anything.

Also you said that he wanted us to follow in his footsteps, wouldn't alot of those footsteps require us to have knowledge of good and evil? But then he says he doesn't want Adam and Eve to obtain this knowledge so assuming he doesn't change his mind either you're lying, hes lying or hes purposely setting an impossible task. Which is it?

[Godscreated]

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For someone who claimed (key word claimed) you know little if any thing about God and His scriptures. Adam and eve sinned because they disobeyed God, God made it clear there would be consequences to this action and there was. God has never changed His mind, and God needs not to prove things to Himself, He is proving to creation that God is absolutely righteous and just.

---

Read the Bible cover to cover so yeah, I know a fair bit about your religion. I would appreciate it if everytime I came up with a good point that makes you look horribly misinformed you'd stop blaming it, somewhat predictably, on *my* lack of knowledge. It doesn't logically follow and it only serves to make you look rather childish.

Now to point out the obvious. God is omnipotent, therefore he knows how everythings going to turn out. He knew they'd take the apple.
What was the point in putting it there in the first place?
And before you say it was a test, it was a test he already knew the results to so that doesn't explain anything.

Also you said that he wanted us to follow in his footsteps, wouldn't alot of those footsteps require us to have knowledge of good and evil? But then he says he doesn't want Adam and Eve to obtain this knowledge so assuming he doesn't change his mind either you're lying, hes lying or hes purposely setting an impossible task. Which is it?

Reading is not the same as studying, people hear say I just read scientific stuff without studying so if the atheist community here is setting the standard it needs to be applied to all works. If you do not like being called out on your lack of Biblical knowledge you should study and not just read.
Agreed God is omniscient, agreed God knew they would disobey Him by eating the fruit, agreed He knows how everything will turn out.
Adam and Eve had no idea how things would go, at first they had no desire to eat the fruit, they enjoyed walking with God in the cool of the evening. God enjoyed the love they had for Him, and why not we all do. The greatest love they showed for God was obeying the one commandment He gave them, the fruit was there because of love, they had the freedom to disobey and fall or obey and continue in grace. Well we all know how it turned out. It was not a test, never was meant to be, it had to be there for Adam and Eve to show total love for God.

Yes God wants us to try to live as close as we can to His perfect standard. Because we have the knowledge of good and evil is why God has to ask us to live close to His perfect standard, if Adam and Eve had not disobeyed God then there would be no need in Him asking us to live close to His standard. We would be doing that, unless someone else disobeyed God's commandment.
Placing the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden was not for a task as you put it, it was there because God wanted Adam and Eve and everyone else to love Him through obedience. Just like parents want their children to show love to them by obeying them. Obedience is trust and I do not know of a greater way to show love to others than through trust.
No one has lied nor deceived.

[cratehorus]

Reading is not the same as studying, people hear say I just read scientific stuff without studying so if the atheist community here is setting the standard it needs to be applied to all works.

by studying you mean be brainwashed by.

If you do not like being called out on your lack of Biblical knowledge you should study and not just read.

SO unless your psychotically obsessed with Jesus' genitalia then you must have not read the bible right? Is that what your saying?

Agreed God is omniscient, agreed God knew they would disobey Him by eating the fruit, agreed He knows how everything will turn out.

SO your god cuases all murder rape and general evil in the world, and sends people to hell on purpose?? Dude... your god sucks...

Adam and Eve had no idea how things would go, at first they had no desire to eat the fruit, they enjoyed walking with God in the cool of the evening.

of course everybody knows that....???

God enjoyed the love they had for Him, and why not we all do.

yes, why not we all do, indeed.

The greatest love they showed for God was obeying the one commandment He gave them, the fruit was there because of love, they had the freedom to disobey and fall or obey and continue in grace.

he knew they would disobey him but punished them for doing what he know they would do, your god is weird and at the very best a negligent parent.

Well we all know how it turned out. It was not a test, never was meant to be, it had to be there for Adam and Eve to show total love for God.

and they didn't so doesn't that mean nobody should love god? Isn't that the message from your perverted fairy tales.

Yes God wants us to try to live as close as we can to His perfect standard. Because we have the knowledge of good and evil is why God has to ask us to live close to His perfect standard, if Adam and Eve had not disobeyed God then there would be no need in Him asking us to live close to His standard. We would be doing that, unless someone else disobeyed God's commandment.

so why the standard? Is it beacuse he enjoys torturing his children? In what you call hell???

Placing the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden was not for a task as you put it, it was there because God wanted Adam and Eve and everyone else to love Him through obedience. Just like parents want their children to show love to them by obeying them. Obedience is trust and I do not know of a greater way to show love to others than through trust.
No one has lied nor deceived.

SO god created adam and eve to kill and torture them as an example to the rest of us? Why is it everytime I learn more about Christianity the more fucked up it seems? Fucking retarded brainwashed assholes If I had one wish it would be that the bible was changed to say that any good christian who commits suicide will automatically get in heaven... wait no... I mean the old testament that way all the Jewish and Muslim assholes would die and fuck off too

[Polaris]

If you become like Jesus, then it is good. More Christians need to follow the example of Jesus in their lives as well as read the New Testament. That way they won't harm others as they have been known to do in the United States...aka getting involved in the personal lives of non-Believers when Paul wrote for Christians not to do so.

[Godscreated]

@ cratehorus, it's quite apparent you do not have a Bible, please get one and study it before making absurd remarks, then you can show how dumb you really are. It gets very tiring listening to people who have no idea what they are talking about.

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, since we're all agreeing that god knew how it would pan out a call malice (I'd call it negligence, but that would imply that he didn't know and was just careless with leaving out the Bad Stuff™. Personally I have guns in my home, but I don't leave the ammo out in the open, guess that makes me a better father to my children than your heavenly father was to his. I suppose that might explain why mine aren't damned and his are.

[Faith No More]

Placing the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden was not for a task as you put it, it was there because God wanted Adam and Eve and everyone else to love Him through obedience. Just like parents want their children to show love to them by obeying them.

Parents don't want their children to obey them, because it is a sign of love. They want their children to obey, because it is for their own good. I want my son to listen to me, because there are going to be times when we would be unavailable to avoid situations in which danger might arise, such as crossing the street. If he doesn't learn to listen to me, then he might not listen when his safety truly matters. That is why I want him to obey.

Now, you might say that this is what god is trying to do. It does not follow, however, as god is responsible for the dangerous situation himself. He could have easily avoided this whole thing by not placing the tree of knowledge in the garden. Essentially, you are arguing that god created a dangerous situation simply out of the desire to have someone follow his command, and then, when the situation goes horribly wrong, lay the blame on the one who had no way to truly understand the consequences of their actions. It's like a parent giving their kid a loaded gun, telling them not to use it, and then when he shoots himself telling the police it's not your fault since you told him not to do it.

[Rev. Rye]

Obedience isn't supposed to be about expressing love. It's supposed to be about protecting your loved ones and yourself. People don't just set up arbitrary restrictions just for the sake of setting up restrictions, and if they did, then they need to seriously be kept from being in charge of anyone else.

If they know enough to recognise that it's arbitrary, they're going to test the waters and see just what happens if they do eat from the tree. The same thing will probably happen if they're just plain ignorant. Since Adam and Eve were apparently as curious as their descendants would be, this was particularly inevitable. In particular, God's warning that they would die when they ate it wouldn't seem like it would be a particularly strong deterrent, since nothing seems to indicate that the newly-created humans would have much of an idea as to what death even is. It seems like, given the popularity of ideas like the afterlife, many humans today can't really process what death would really be like. It's like Peter Pan running away from home the day he was born so he wouldn't have to grow up. So, assuming the Garden of Eden story is true, we are left to assume one of three options:

A) God is not only not omniscient, but an idiot for assuming that the naive people he created would have enough sense to stay away from something in a garden that was apparently created for them.
B) God is a sadist (Clearly not benevolent) who was looking for an excuse to punish his creation, even if it means entrapment. The fact that he waited no less than four millenia (if the Ussher chronology is to be taken seriously) to do something that would only partially undo this doesn't exactly help matters.
C) God is not responsible for the creation of that tree, so, therefore, he didn't create everything, and thus, his power is undermined, and he comes out as less than omnipotent.

At this point, it makes the most sense to say it's all bullshit. If you've got a D that explains the events of Genesis 3 better, I'd like to hear it.

Edit: For what it's worth, the traditional Jewish perspective is that their sin wasn't eating the fruit, but hiding the fact that they ate it. It certainly makes much more sense than the Christian interpretations.

[Reforged]

Read the Bible cover to cover so yeah, I know a fair bit about your religion. I would appreciate it if everytime I came up with a good point that makes you look horribly misinformed you'd stop blaming it, somewhat predictably, on *my* lack of knowledge. It doesn't logically follow and it only serves to make you look rather childish.

Now to point out the obvious. God is omnipotent, therefore he knows how everythings going to turn out. He knew they'd take the apple.
What was the point in putting it there in the first place?
And before you say it was a test, it was a test he already knew the results to so that doesn't explain anything.

Also you said that he wanted us to follow in his footsteps, wouldn't alot of those footsteps require us to have knowledge of good and evil? But then he says he doesn't want Adam and Eve to obtain this knowledge so assuming he doesn't change his mind either you're lying, hes lying or hes purposely setting an impossible task. Which is it?

Reading is not the same as studying, people hear say I just read scientific stuff without studying so if the atheist community here is setting the standard it needs to be applied to all works. If you do not like being called out on your lack of Biblical knowledge you should study and not just read.
Agreed God is omniscient, agreed God knew they would disobey Him by eating the fruit, agreed He knows how everything will turn out.
Adam and Eve had no idea how things would go, at first they had no desire to eat the fruit, they enjoyed walking with God in the cool of the evening. God enjoyed the love they had for Him, and why not we all do. The greatest love they showed for God was obeying the one commandment He gave them, the fruit was there because of love, they had the freedom to disobey and fall or obey and continue in grace. Well we all know how it turned out. It was not a test, never was meant to be, it had to be there for Adam and Eve to show total love for God.

Yes God wants us to try to live as close as we can to His perfect standard. Because we have the knowledge of good and evil is why God has to ask us to live close to His perfect standard, if Adam and Eve had not disobeyed God then there would be no need in Him asking us to live close to His standard. We would be doing that, unless someone else disobeyed God's commandment.
Placing the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden was not for a task as you put it, it was there because God wanted Adam and Eve and everyone else to love Him through obedience. Just like parents want their children to show love to them by obeying them. Obedience is trust and I do not know of a greater way to show love to others than through trust.
No one has lied nor deceived.

I was under the impression reading is a form of study and read I have on numerous subjects not least of all religion. The Bible is a book I have read on the subject. I also took RE as an applied subject for five years and was raised by a catholic mother. What particular form of study have you undergone that gives you better insight? Scientists at first learn through reading, discussion and lectures, they later learn from experiments which successfully apply what they have learned. I have read about, discussed and attended lectures on religion. Seen as religion doesn't have an equivalent to experimentation what are you suggesting? You can't possibly accuse me of lacking knowledge if you don't outline what that knowledge is and where it comes from. Otherwise its a statement without any meaning behind it, you'd be calling me ignorant for the sake of calling me ignorant which is not acceptable in any civilized debate.

If what you say is true then the only reason he put the apple there was to experience temporary worship and control over those he had created. He knew they would take it and he knew he would cast them out as a result into a land of suffering where they would wither and die. He knew this yet he still went through with it just so he could have his own personal fan club for a while before disowning them due to a circumstance of his own creation.
These are the implications of what you have just written, how is this not a despicable being?

He knew this obedience wouldn't be given forever, he knew it like he supposedly knows everything. If what unfolded unfolded then it could not of unfolded any other way, in a universe where omnipotence is possible freewill is not. He made the decision to put the apple there knowing where it would lead and put it there anyway. The victims of these machinations would not be to blame, it would be the one who designed them and the guilt would rest entirely with him. A parent would not do this to their child, it would be cruelty of the highest degree. Obedience is not trust. You trust in friends, you trust in family and in mentors. You do not serve them. Obedience is what a slave would have for his master. If you do not believe me you should look up the two definitions and see how they look side by side.

I will put the query to you more clearly with what you've written taken into account:
Why would a loving God set a course of events he knew would cause pain and suffering to his creations for the sake of temporary servility from them?
If creating a being like him was his goal why did he not simply create beings like him to begin with?
I don't know is an acceptable answer if that is the only one you can honestly say you have.

[Greatest I am]

[
No one has lied nor deceived.

Was not giving A & E all the consequences of eating of the tree of knowledge deception or a lie of omission?

God did not tell of the benefits of having their eyes opened or becoming like Gods in knowing good and evil nor did he tell them that he would let them die by preventing them from accessing the tree of life.

To me, that is a lie of omission as well as God murdering them by denying them life.

Would you let your child die for not obeying your dictates?

God loves the evil ones more than the good because he is the greatest sinner.
This love of sinners is the hinge pin on which his benevolent qualities depend and without evil and sin, God could never expressed his benevolence and we would never know of God’s mercy, forgiveness, compassion and all his other positive attributes. Love, like faith, can only be expressed by actions and for God to show his love of sinners and his other positive attributes, evil, sin and sinners must exist to receive this love.

Before the earth was formed, God planned to have Jesus sacrificed, murdered in fact, for those of us who are sinners. That is all of us. Jesus’ sacrifice was to be God’s example of the greatest evil and sin from the point of view of all who are wise. It shows our greatest loss and evil if we were to do as God did. Those of us who are evil without knowing good will try to profit from this greatest evil. We are to venerate life. Not take it or try to profit from its death. Though shalt not kill or try to profit from it.

As above so below.

The fact that God created evil and sin is a given. He created all that is to those who believe he exists. He decides what is evil or not and therefore sets this as our standard. It is a human standard. God is man.

Have you forgotten that you are to be a God by emulating your heavenly father?
Sin by the thought of having your child killed or profiting from someone else’s doing so and repent as God did.

All fathers or parent will know that the greatest evil he can experience is to have his children die before he does. Having them killed is the greatest sin that any entity can do. Including God himself. As the Alpha, God knew he had to do this to also be the Omega. That is a part of the full standard of good and evil as declared by God as the law maker.

This shows that he loves sinners more than those of us who are supposedly good. Think of the prodigal son myth here. Those who know their evil ways will know this. Those who do not will think they are good and will accept this greatest evil for their salvation. A completely immoral act by all moral standards as set by God and man.

http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

God planned to have Adam and Eve expelled from the Garden of Eden and placed his beloved Satan near the tree of knowledge to insure that mankind ate of it. To make sure of this, God gave Satan the power to deceive all of us including Adam and Eve. As history shows, his plan was a great success. Dominion over the earth was Satan’s reward and gift from God for aiding in this great success. Evil is our lord and God as shown by God’s actions. Satan is not real of course but as the personification of evil, rules us. That is scripture.

The great value of sinners is that we set the standards for the good. Without us, we would all be living in what we would call hell instead of the paradise that we have created thanks to sin and the evils we do. This maintains the perfection of all that is. This explains why God loves the sinner and hates the sin and this is also why we are rewarded with the eternal paradise of hell. Remember that fire, in the beginning, was prized as the greatest purifying force known to us. It still is. Evolution and creation began in the fires of the big bang.

Martin Luther, A Gnostic Christian and founder of the Protestant movement may, have been aware of this. He said, “Be a sinner and sin strongly, but more strongly have faith and rejoice in Christ.” In this though we must remember what Jesus said. That to think of sin is to do it and hopefully learn morals from the experience. We are to sin that way and not do the actual act. There should not be a need to do so.

I invite you to follow the bible advice ---- 1 Thessalonians. 5:21; “Test all things".
If you will only give a dogmatic kneejerk denial of this theory then please ignore this post.

Please test the logic of what I have written even as it goes against you dogma and traditional thinking. God is good but just not the God you think he is. The root of all religions is the Great Arcanum and this theory fit’s it perfectly in my opinion.

http://www.sacred-sex.org/scriptures/jud...enant.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhKVElO8J...re=related

Offsprings and their great value are the driving force of all religions. Those who would profit from the murder or sacrifice of the offspring, archetypal Jesus, are knowing evil without knowing good and are thus evil in their hearts.

Christians. Most of you are basically good. Please stop doing evil and sinning in your thoughts of profiting from God’s sacrifice and murder of his innocent son. You are missing the moral of the myth and calling evil good. This thinking will send you to hell.

Regards
DL

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If you become like Jesus, then it is good. More Christians need to follow the example of Jesus in their lives as well as read the New Testament. That way they won't harm others as they have been known to do in the United States...aka getting involved in the personal lives of non-Believers when Paul wrote for Christians not to do so.

Jesus gave mostly unworkable rhetoric.

His divorce law, let no man put asunder, no cause for divorce, is basically saying that if we choose the wrong mate, we must stay with them. That is anti-love FMPOV as it forces a woman that gets beat twice a week to have to stay with an a hole.

If Jesus was also God then his morals would have to be questioned and they are a fail.

I question Christians on that with what I just asked G C above.

Regards
DL