Mass shootings a question for atheists.

[Faith No More]

Bullshit! Nowhere near the same. I have never suggested that a private funeral or a public memorial be turned into an agenda. You again are confusing a private message board with a public event.

If you have no agenda, why bring it up? Besides, this message board is plenty public enough.

[Brian37]

It's actually unbelievable to me that you would take issue with Christians expressing the way they feel about this tragedy

THIS IS A DEBATE BOARD! SEPARATE FROM the fact that ANY religious person be it a Jew or Muslim or Hindu, expresses mourning IS NOT THE FUCKING ISSUE! DUH AND THANKS FOR THE FUCKING UPDATE!

I lost my adoptive father when I was 13. My mother was raped when I was 16. I have buried all of my grandparents, both adoptive and biological. And my mother has experienced strokes and seizures, flipped her van and ended up in the hospital, and was in the hospital for a week for pneumonia.

The point is you don't own a fucking monopoly on trauma. Every human will experience it at some point. My trauma or yours are NOT special. Our species has always had bad things happen to us, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US.

Now if you claim you are the equal empathy person you claim to be, then you should have no problem with ANYONE outside your label, be they Jew or Muslim or Hindu or atheist, displaying what they are in a public mourning event. I don't believe you considering your responses.

---

Bullshit! Nowhere near the same. I have never suggested that a private funeral or a public memorial be turned into an agenda. You again are confusing a private message board with a public event.

If you have no agenda, why bring it up? Besides, this message board is plenty public enough.

Do you have reading comprehension problems.

I DO have an agenda HERE, I do not deny that. I do find ALL claims of invisible friends absurd, especially claims of ones who seem to sit on their hands and do nothing. BUT again,that is not a human empathy issue, that is a CLAIM issue.

CONTEXT of situation.

In any given group in any society, there are "in groups" and "out groups", but we are STILL all the same species. Yet the "in group" of ANY GIVEN society in our species evolution, sets up a double standard where they get special treatment, but the outsiders or minorities, who are just as human as they are, are expected to remain silent.

If we are all equal, and we all mourn, which we all do, then in the context of a public memorial, the only "agenda" i have is that there is a bit more diversity, and not just the fake crap of "We included all sorts of races and sects of Christianity"

Please learn the difference between a debate, which this is, and our common human condition, otherwise you will stupidly confuse my criticism with hate. Hate of a specific claim or behavior is not the same as ignorant hate of an entire group of people.

Mourning is part of our species, no matter our label. But you are out of your mind if you think an atheist could lead a public memorial and state what they are while doing such, EVEN when their empathy for their fellow human is genuine.

The woman who got shot in Iran during the protest, was a Muslim. That clip of the blood running out of her chest, not only horrified me, but pissed me off. The fact that she believed in something I found absurd, was not the issue. At that moment in viewing that video, I was thinking about how much I wanted to beat the shit out of the bullies.

CONTEXT is why you are making stupid statements about what you think I am doing and who I am.

[ElijahDrew]

I'm sure the shooter will eventually be identified as an atheist, another reason for theists to believe we're immoral baby-eaters.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Yea we can, as long as we don't wear anything that says atheist,

Did atheists world wide have an election and put you in charge? Get over yourself.


There is no 'we' in 'atheist.'

[Cato]

The woman who got shot in Iran during the protest, was a Muslim. That clip of the blood running out of her chest, not only horrified me, but pissed me off. The fact that she believed in something I found absurd, was not the issue. At that moment in viewing that video, I was thinking about how much I wanted to beat the shit out of the bullies.

CONTEXT is why you are making stupid statements about what you think I am doing and who I am.

Her name was Neda Agha-Soltan. Neda's death was so horrific that remembering her name became a nightmare; otherwise, you would have remembered it!!!! Right?

Neda didn't die to satisfy your comfortable indignation. Not remembering her name doesn't honor her in the least, despite your feigned protest.

Fuck off! I'm looking for a poet that understands human condition and will challenge me with a verbal mirror. If you are a true poet then you will honor my challenge and show me, through the verbal mirror, the side that I should endeavor to be and not reinforce the side that I 'want' to see.

Put aside your self-indulgent rants. If you are the poet you claim to be, then hold up the fucking mirror! Like it or not, you have proven yourself to be inefectual at prose.

[Godscreated]

@Brian37, what's this cross thing, I see people who are not Christians wearing crosses all the time, crosses are not exclusive to Christians, however when someone wears a hat or tee-shirt to an event that says whatever on it, they are trying to draw attention to themselves,as I said before grow up. I support your right to express your way to mourn in public as long as you do not make an issue of what you believe or do not believe. I'm not saying you can't express yourself in the way you do or do not believe, I'm saying not to make what you believe the issue, when the real issue is those that are mourning.
Everyone has a right to mourn in their own way and belief and no one has a right to tell another they do not, this I believe with a true conviction, so do not come back at me again saying, I do not respect the way others mourn. What I do not know is how you can handle a situation like the death of a loved one without God, but that's me and because of the way I believe, and I'm sure you do not understand why I need to rely on God, but that's you and the way you believe, I'm not asking you to understand.
I'm not sure why you given a history of the death of your loved ones, I too have lost many people I love, family and friends, and none were easy. I do sympathize with you in the circumstances of your losses, none of this is easy for anyone.
Have you ever considered that most people even if they do not believe in God have a preacher at a loved ones funeral, I've been to funerals where I know the one who died was not a Christian and the pastor knew as well, do you think the pastor is comfortable doing a funeral like that. I can tell you it's not, yet they do the funeral anyway, they do it out of compassion for the ones left behind. They try and bring some type of comfort to the grieving, even though they are uncomfortable doing the funeral. These pastors say nothing about the deceased going to hell, even though they believe that to be the truth, they do not use the service to make a political statement, they bring with them the compassion the loved ones need.

[Faith No More]

CONTEXT is why you are making stupid statements about what you think I am doing and who I am.

Really? I'm the one making stupid statements? You're the one that keeps saying that atheists can't grieve in public and that we can't identify as atheists, yet you can't even give one example of this ever happening. Not only that, you are using a tragedy as an opportunity to shout from from a soap about how persecuted you feel, which is deplorable. Whether you do it here or on the six o'clock news is irrelevant. This is absolutely not a religious issue until people like you decide to make it one, and I'm disgusted that you would do so.

[Brian37]

The woman who got shot in Iran during the protest, was a Muslim. That clip of the blood running out of her chest, not only horrified me, but pissed me off. The fact that she believed in something I found absurd, was not the issue. At that moment in viewing that video, I was thinking about how much I wanted to beat the shit out of the bullies.

CONTEXT is why you are making stupid statements about what you think I am doing and who I am.

Her name was Neda Agha-Soltan. Neda's death was so horrific that remembering her name became a nightmare; otherwise, you would have remembered it!!!! Right?

Neda didn't die to satisfy your comfortable indignation. Not remembering her name doesn't honor her in the least, despite your feigned protest.

Fuck off! I'm looking for a poet that understands human condition and will challenge me with a verbal mirror. If you are a true poet then you will honor my challenge and show me, through the verbal mirror, the side that I should endeavor to be and not reinforce the side that I 'want' to see.

Put aside your self-indulgent rants. If you are the poet you claim to be, then hold up the fucking mirror! Like it or not, you have proven yourself to be inefectual at prose.

A "true poet" ok, like a "true Christian" or "true Muslim" or "true atheist". Well to me, no "true atheist" pulls the "true Scotsman fallacy".

What exactly is the "human condition"? Is it the fact that no matter our label we all have good shit and bad shit happen to us? I didn't know that was so fucking complex.

So a big lexicon and degree are the only litmus test to knowing pain and pleasure? Thank you for being so condescending to our species.

---

Yea we can, as long as we don't wear anything that says atheist,

Did atheists world wide have an election and put you in charge? Get over yourself.


There is no 'we' in 'atheist.'

I defy you to show me, where I said I speak for all atheists? No body put me in charge of shit. Expressing an opinion on how the "out group" gets treated, IN OUR FUCKING EVOLUTION, is my point. And you are an idiot if you as an atheist think you have the same rights in a public morning process as a Christian.

NOW here is where you need to get your head out of your ass. THE SAME HUMAN REACTION TO A MINORITY, would exist if YOU were a Christian wanting to express empathy in a Muslim majority, or if you were a Jew expressing empathy for a Palestinian.

You are damned right that there is no "we" in atheist, or any other fucking label for that matter. MY ENTIRE POINT IS THAT WE ARE THE SAME FUCKING SPECIES!

I am NOT in charge of any fucking thing besides my own life. If you shoot me in the head the same fucking thing would happen. I would die.

Merely pointing out that we all feel pain and we all express mourning is not a demand on my part to become the alpha male.

---

@Brian37, what's this cross thing, I see people who are not Christians wearing crosses all the time, crosses are not exclusive to Christians, however when someone wears a hat or tee-shirt to an event that says whatever on it, they are trying to draw attention to themselves,as I said before grow up. I support your right to express your way to mourn in public as long as you do not make an issue of what you believe or do not believe. I'm not saying you can't express yourself in the way you do or do not believe, I'm saying not to make what you believe the issue, when the real issue is those that are mourning.
Everyone has a right to mourn in their own way and belief and no one has a right to tell another they do not, this I believe with a true conviction, so do not come back at me again saying, I do not respect the way others mourn. What I do not know is how you can handle a situation like the death of a loved one without God, but that's me and because of the way I believe, and I'm sure you do not understand why I need to rely on God, but that's you and the way you believe, I'm not asking you to understand.
I'm not sure why you given a history of the death of your loved ones, I too have lost many people I love, family and friends, and none were easy. I do sympathize with you in the circumstances of your losses, none of this is easy for anyone.
Have you ever considered that most people even if they do not believe in God have a preacher at a loved ones funeral, I've been to funerals where I know the one who died was not a Christian and the pastor knew as well, do you think the pastor is comfortable doing a funeral like that. I can tell you it's not, yet they do the funeral anyway, they do it out of compassion for the ones left behind. They try and bring some type of comfort to the grieving, even though they are uncomfortable doing the funeral. These pastors say nothing about the deceased going to hell, even though they believe that to be the truth, they do not use the service to make a political statement, they bring with them the compassion the loved ones need.

If your point is that people can wear crap they don't actually believe, yea, so what. I've seen people wear yin yang symbols just because they like the way it looks. But don't give me this crap that there are not believers that wear ANY type of dress or jewelery who mean to say "look at me".

Are you telling me that there are people who wear Yamaka's or Muslims who wear turbans who never wear it to say "hey look at me".

But when an atheist wears an atom symbol or a shirt or hat that says "atheist" we cant or should not do it?

---

I'm sure the shooter will eventually be identified as an atheist, another reason for theists to believe we're immoral baby-eaters.

That about sums it up. But to be fair to our species, this is the "in group" attitude to the "out group", and our species still refuses to accept, on issues of race, religion, nationality, that we are all born, we all shit, and pee, no matter our class or status, and will all die.

[Godscreated]

@Brian37, why can't you wear clothing that says what you believe, it's your right to do so and no one should say that it's not your right. You should be prepared to defend what you believe, I wear tee-shirts that say Jesus on them, they are not worn to say hey look at me, I wear them to get people thinking and if they want to engage in conversation that's cool. I will talk with anyone whether they are believers or nonbelievers. I would always defend your right to wear what ever you want to as long as it's not vile, to many children already see more than they should.

[Epimethean]

Ugly thread.