RE: Mass shootings a question for atheists.
July 22, 2012 at 6:39 am
(This post was last modified: July 22, 2012 at 6:48 am by Brian37.)
(July 21, 2012 at 7:32 am)Faith No More Wrote: Using a tragedy such as this to promote religion or a lack thereof is not only insensitive, it's despicable. I have yet to see one theist make a claim that they are the only ones that suffer.
Agreed, but that still DOES NOT CHANGE the double standard that theists get a pass when expressing their beliefs during tragedy.
If they can claim "I am just expressing myself" and most people, including atheists here reading this, then please explain to me why it would not be possible for atheists to mention their beliefs without it being an agenda?
"He is with god now", fine, or "I pray for the victim's family", again fine.
So why couldn't an atheist in this setting say "As an atheist our thoughts go out to both the family's and the victims". So if any time we do something like that it should always be viewed as political? But when they do it it is not?
It seems to me a double standard for theists to get a pass and we assume they are not being political, but if we do the same thing, suddenly we are?
I am not talking about the debate of the logic of a god. I am not talking about a private funeral or private memorial. I am talking about the expectation of silence by believers when on camera or during a public memorial.
It is the monopoly I object to, in any aspect of life, including public mourning, that we cant do the same things in expression of empathy, that they take for granted while expecting atheists to remain silent.
What we are doing in this thread IS NOT a public memorial or even a private funeral. It is bringing up a real issue of discrimination on the part of theists.
What you say is not lost on me. When my grandfather died, he had a pastor speak, and I kept my mouth shut. I help carry the casket, and another prayer, again, kept my mouth shut the entire time. Hugged family and friends and so on and cried myself.
On the other hand, my brother, knowing I was an atheist, spoke at the funeral and I hadn't said a damned thing said at the pulpit, LOOKING DIRECTLY AT ME, as "hint hint", TO ME, "Granddad would have wanted you to find god". That asshole knew damned well my Grandfather who did believe didn't give one fuck what I believed and was simply happy to have me in his life.
That is bad enough, and no one else who spoke for him pulled that shit. The rest of them talked about what a great father and grand father he was. I was fine with that, even with the god talk.
But these same people, even outside a private funeral, WOULD get pissed even if it was a not political offering of sympathy on behalf of an atheist or atheist group. The logic of a god claim is a separate issue. But there is a double standard in these settings.
Why should we refrain from saying that our atheism is part of our coping.It is the monopoly and the unreasonable expectation that they can do it, but we shouldn't.
Quote:I have yet to see one theist make a claim that they are the only ones that suffer.
They don't say it, but far too many of A VARIETY of labels act like it.. Otherwise if they truly accepted that their beliefs are not the center of the universe, then they would not object to you stating your atheism as part of your mourning. As soon as those who would object, object, they are expressing their own insecurities, they are not valuing your rights.
Of course we are not going to get most people of an label to stop stating god claims during times of trauma. But if you think they wouldn't object to you stating your atheism during a time of trauma, you are fooling yourself, and you are allowing them to bully you into second class status.
This to me was no different than when Christians objected to Muslims speaking at the 9/11 memorial, or even buying LEGALLY a building in NYC.
This is a hypocrisy issue. Atheists are still the least trusted minority in the United States. While we are not the only ones discriminated against, times of trauma are part of our lives too, and we have as much right as any theist to state our positions as being part of our coping, WITHOUT them claiming it is always political in that setting.