The silly "SELFISH" label

[Ciel_Rouge]

You have your path through life and your in charge of that life.

Indeed. This is our life. The "selfish" label is so hypocritical. Of course we care about ourselves and want to be happy, this is OUR life. And when we attach the "selfish" label to other people this is just an indirect way to force them to do something for US. There is nothing wrong in enhancing ourselves, we are born to grow not to reduce ourselves and our lives to misery.

[Napoléon]

[Cato]

Obviously agreed; however, I am compelled to share a bit of Hitchens on the topic. Forward to about 1:25 to get to the selfishness bit (re: Ayn Rand).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7c-Ei7btbI

[kılıç_mehmet]

You have your path through life and your in charge of that life.

Indeed. This is our life. The "selfish" label is so hypocritical. Of course we care about ourselves and want to be happy, this is OUR life. And when we attach the "selfish" label to other people this is just an indirect way to force them to do something for US. There is nothing wrong in enhancing ourselves, we are born to grow not to reduce ourselves and our lives to misery.

Well, no one said that you shouldn't enhance yourself, nor reduce yourself or to live your life in misery. It's about giving something back to society, that provides you with the environment that you need to enhance yourself.
It's actually a selfish person that expects everything from the people around him/her, while giving nothing back.

[Ciel_Rouge]

Hello kılıç_mehmet, I was rather referring to more a personal context like:

"- Hey you, give me your candy!
- No.
- Oh, you are so SELFISH"

The person who is really "selfish" here is actually the one who wants to take away the candy.

How does society really provide us with anything or how do we give something in return? Society only aims at controlling individuals and enslaving them to do the most mundane work. Actually the individuals who somehow manage to escape this and grow to be someone more capable are the ones who really contribute to the well being of the society as a whole.

For example, Einstein remaining at his post as a clerk at the patent office would have been a good slave perhaps but as a pioneer in physics had actually much more impact and massively contributed to the progress of science. Had he not been so "selfish" to follow his own interest, we would not have his theory of relativity.

Of course there are always those meatbags who do absolutely nothing and expect to receive and be supplied with everything, but that's a different story. I am speaking about destroying one's ability of self-growth and self-enhancement and about exploitation of individuals by society by means of the simple trick of attaching the "selfish" label to those who dare to care for themselves.

[kılıç_mehmet]

How does society really provide us with anything or how do we give something in return? Society only aims at controlling individuals and enslaving them to do the most mundane work. Actually the individuals who somehow manage to escape this and grow to be someone more capable are the ones who really contribute to the well being of the society as a whole.

Well, if not for society, what would really stop me from taking your candy from you, instead of just saying "you're selfish"?
Without society, you wouldn't exist.
Individuals cannot escape society, as society is made up from these individuals.
And if you do not give something back to the society you belong to, it will wear out, and so will you, and the life standard that you enjoy today. And how do you give back something? Well, a good start would be to start a proper family. The best thing you can do for your society is to provide them with a future, which means children. Other than that, you should supply these children with education, so that they can contribute to themselves and society the same way you do.

Other than that, you can try your best to act as an upstanding member. Contributing to society can come in many ways. It's really a bother to list them all here, but at the end, it all comes back to you and your children.

For example, Einstein remaining at his post as a clerk at the patent office would have been a good slave perhaps but as a pioneer in physics had actually much more impact and massively contributed to the progress of science. Had he not been so "selfish" to follow his own interest, we would not have his theory of relativity.

And you're saying that society wanted him to become a clerck in the patent office instead of a physicist, yes? I don't know how you came to the conclusion that society aims to enslave people and hinder scientific progress, as society cannot advance or live without them.
It's indeed true that people go for education for personal gain, but obviously, the education they receive is not just for them. They contribute to society in one way or the other. Those who refuse to do so, are generally people who do not really do much good for themselves either.

Of course there are always those meatbags who do absolutely nothing and expect to receive and be supplied with everything, but that's a different story. I am speaking about destroying one's ability of self-growth and self-enhancement and about exploitation of individuals by society by means of the simple trick of attaching the "selfish" label to those who dare to care for themselves.

7
Wait a second. Who destroys whose abilities of self-growth and self-enhancement? Without society to guide you, you would not have the means to enhance yourself, friend.
There is no trick attached here.
You came here simply proclaiming that there was such a thing without giving an example. Explain yourself more clearly.

[Rayaan]

In my opinion, we human beings are essentially self-interested animals from a psychological point of view. That would be the context of our selfishness. There are altruistic acts indeed, obviously, and altruism may exist between certain people also (i.e. such as between those who have strong/close relationships), but there are no altruistic people. That is because we naturally live for ourselves and we care about our own happiness, health, success, freedom, etc. more than that of anyone else.

[Anomalocaris]

The "selfish" label is so hypocritical.

Oh please, "selfish" label references a social compact, and for this reason no more hypochritical than any other label that references social compacts, such as "thief", "cheat", or "murderer".

[Ciel_Rouge]

Without society, you wouldn't exist.
Individuals cannot escape society, as society is made up from these individuals.

And without me and everybody else, society would not exist either ;-)
Society as a whole is not very rational, it is conservative and repressive and stagnant. One cannot escape society completely but it is possible to recognize social pressure and evade it when necessary.

And how do you give back something? Well, a good start would be to start a proper family. The best thing you can do for your society is to provide them with a future, which means children. Other than that, you should supply these children with education, so that they can contribute to themselves and society the same way you do.

Do you know what is the population of Nigeria? Go check it in Wiki, to me it was rather shocking. Now go check the population of Switzerland. Now compare their gross domestic product per capita (wealth per person). Is overpopulating a good thing? Does it have any point to start families in stagnant societies which will not be able to give a bright future to their children but only pain and poverty? Nigeria does not progress in its quality of life. It only makes its population grow.

And you're saying that society wanted him to become a clerck in the patent office instead of a physicist, yes? I don't know how you came to the conclusion that society aims to enslave people and hinder scientific progress, as society cannot advance or live without them.

The society - his relatives etc. wanted him to have a "normal" job and be a nobody. He developed his theory because he was curious - that is what he stated himself. He somewhat neglected his "normal" job and followed his personal curiosity and later had to break the resistance of the scientific establishment who refused to accept his theories. Society does not act rational. It acts conservative and repressive. Of course society benefits from scientific progress but it does not support it directly. Only individuals strong enough to oppose social pressure like Einstein actually succeed in making a difference.

Wait a second. Who destroys whose abilities of self-growth and self-enhancement? Without society to guide you, you would not have the means to enhance yourself, friend.
There is no trick attached here.
You came here simply proclaiming that there was such a thing without giving an example. Explain yourself more clearly.

Society guides individuals to become stagnant and submissive. Individuals who manage to make a difference are usually strong enough to guide themselves and GUIDE THE SOCIETY that would follow them - think about major political leaders - they did not follow their society, the society followed them.

I already gave you two examples - taking away your candy and Einstein succeeding in opposing the society in general and the scientific society to really make progress. We really did not make much progress since Einstein in this field, we are only testing his theories. The third example are great political leaders. Society can guide individuals. But if individuals are strong enough to oppose, they can guide the society

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

It's about giving something back to society, that provides you with the environment that you need to enhance yourself.

That is quid pro quo, not selflessness. My observation is that there are indeed altruistic acts,but no altruistic people.