Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: April 25, 2024, 4:15 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Another holy man leaves fold.
#1
Another holy man leaves fold.
Good for him.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/magazi...eader.html

However, as the article describes it seems to be an emotional reaction to the death of a friend's friend. While it does cut to the selective cherry picking nature of any god claim, emotional reactions causing a shift of position is not the core reason to reject any claim. The core reason is evidence and evidence alone.

Why bad things happen to good people we often hear "former atheists" cop out to as to why they became an atheist. "I was angry at god". Not saying this is the reason this former preacher left his religion, but could easily fall back into theism without deep understanding as to the psychological reason they fell for it in the first place. But you can be angry at the use of logic people use to defend such a claim. No one in their right mind would baby sit a kid in the same selective cherry picking manor this alleged god seems to.

When one thinks about the entire history of evolution and nature in reality, we can see that violence and destruction and death have always been a part of natural reality. There have always been earthquakes, hurricanes, bacteria and viruses. There has always been crime and war.

And once you accept that both the good and bad that happen in natural reality are not the result of a comic book battle between fictional super heros vs super villains, you can be angry at absurd use of logic, without being angry at any fictional being.

To this former preacher I would say it is sad that it took a death for you to come to your senses. No one likes to lose friends or loved ones for any reason, to anything. But don't let your emotions rule you. The fact is we all face death and no one can avoid it. Death is simply part of a natural reality void of superstition and magic men. It is no different than a leaf falling off a tree and rotting. Even the star we call a sun has a lifespan, and the same with our planet.

The emotional reaction only has a valid argument in the context of the "OMNI" attributes people claim about an allegedly moral caregiver who sets us up in an environment he did not have to set us up in, then blames us for what he didn't have to set up. This has long been expressed in Epicurus "problem with evil" which I have yet to see any credible refutation of from a logical standpoint.

The good and bad in reality are better explained by nature and evolution. Ocham's razor is all it takes when someone gives you superfluous myth. Which makes more sense in reality? Humans have always made up myths and falsely believed them to be fact? Or, invisible friends by any label are real?

Atheism is nothing but the kid growing up and giving up on Santa. Evolution was around long before the Egyptians falsely believed the sun was a god. We now live without that false belief, and I do not think life will be any different if the popular god claims today are discarded, other than they will simply be discarded. There will still be natural disasters and disease. But without myth, our observations without sugar pills can help humanity extend our finite ride.

The plus of having a former preacher give up on religion, is that they are ones better to argue with those still in religion as to why they don't need it. Welcome to reality preacher, glad to have you with us.
Reply
#2
RE: Another holy man leaves fold.
(August 22, 2012 at 7:10 am)Brian37 Wrote: Good for him.

However, as the article describes it seems to be an emotional reaction to the death of a friend's friend.

I'm not sure the article describes it that way. Or at least not the way I read it.

The way I read it, it was the phone call from the friend/parishioner that brought his disbelief to the fore, not caused it.

" All he had ever wanted was to be a comfort and a support to the people he grew up with, but now a divide stood between him and them. He could no longer hide his disbelief."

This makes it sound as if he was already a non-believer.

You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
Reply
#3
RE: Another holy man leaves fold.
(August 22, 2012 at 2:27 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:
(August 22, 2012 at 7:10 am)Brian37 Wrote: Good for him.

However, as the article describes it seems to be an emotional reaction to the death of a friend's friend.

I'm not sure the article describes it that way. Or at least not the way I read it.

The way I read it, it was the phone call from the friend/parishioner that brought his disbelief to the fore, not caused it.

" All he had ever wanted was to be a comfort and a support to the people he grew up with, but now a divide stood between him and them. He could no longer hide his disbelief."


This makes it sound as if he was already a non-believer.
I hope so. I have seen this script before from alleged de converts. In any case death in life is not a good reason to accept or reject a god claim, although it does punch holes in the "perfect" "omni" claim and also makes this alleged claimed being seem to be inept, cherry picking, or outright malicious.
Reply
#4
RE: Another holy man leaves fold.
I think everyone here knows my own history with regards to life, death and the pain of loss, and if not it's all on record. Whatever the cause of this former pastor crossing the floor as we say over here, if indeed there was a single cause rather than lots of smaller elements, it's a powerful signal to others who might have their own doubts or maybe feel that their faith/belief etc, the way they may have been brought up, is the only life they can ever know.

Plus, it's encouraging that it's not merely a few sort of wishy-washy waverering types who were undecided about their beliefs and who have 'gone to the bad' from the theistic perspective; these are true-blue bible belt preachers - as well as Jerry DeWitt, the article specifically mentions Nate Phelps who has famously joined our ranks. This is not even to mention former almost-Baptist-minister Matt Dillahunty, nor ex-minister Edward Tarte whose YT channel is very inspiring and well worth checking out.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist.  This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair.  Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second.  That means there's a situation vacant.'
Reply
#5
RE: Another holy man leaves fold.
Quote: emotional reactions causing a shift of position is not the core reason to reject any claim.


Indeed,yet man is an irrational animal. Carl Jung argued that our most powerful beliefs and attitudes come from experience and are unrelated to reason.


Keeping in mind the scribblings I read here and on other forums,from all involved, I think he was probably right. However, many of the atheists here seem more rational than most of the theist apologists,some of whom seem barking mad.

99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999

Tangent.
Min; Uriah Drip is far too humble to impersonate his God.He's just a minion who understands what God thinks about many things. Tiger
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  The Holy Trinity Duty 22 2661 December 21, 2020 at 2:23 pm
Last Post: Prycejosh1987
  Philosophical Failures of Christian Apologetics, Part 11: The Holy Spirit Cepheus Ace 18 2984 June 22, 2020 at 7:45 pm
Last Post: Fake Messiah
  The 'Holy' Drug Matt 8 3582 October 11, 2018 at 11:10 am
Last Post: Sal
  Holy mountains Fake Messiah 2 1047 March 12, 2018 at 10:06 am
Last Post: Chad32
  Holy books on trial mcolafson 7 1563 September 29, 2016 at 11:03 pm
Last Post: CWoods
  insult the holy spirit Longhorn 47 8800 June 10, 2015 at 10:42 am
Last Post: comet
  Rejection of All that is Holy Neo-Scholastic 32 5013 November 19, 2014 at 3:22 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  Holy father vs. unicorns g0sU 15 3649 August 21, 2014 at 10:56 am
Last Post: Diablo
  Holy grail found? Manowar 18 5870 April 4, 2014 at 4:03 am
Last Post: Heywood
  And Obviously, this leaves out the US of A! Minimalist 4 1438 September 19, 2013 at 6:14 pm
Last Post: Jackalope



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)