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RE: Why Secular Morality is Superior
September 7, 2012 at 9:48 am
(September 7, 2012 at 8:53 am)elunico13 Wrote: Then don't condemn the rapist and child molester if that's the life they choose to live.
Wrong. They should be condemned because the life they choose to live is preventing others from living the life of their choice.
(September 7, 2012 at 8:53 am)elunico13 Wrote: And what obligation do they have to follow an an immaterial "urge" in a materialistic universe?
The obligation imposed by the fact that they choose to be a part of the society.
(September 7, 2012 at 8:53 am)elunico13 Wrote: Wrong. Many non christians believe the NT is divinely inspired also.
Like who?
(September 7, 2012 at 8:53 am)elunico13 Wrote: You're judging the behavior of another without a standard to do so.
A judgment without standard would be impossible.
(September 7, 2012 at 8:53 am)elunico13 Wrote: If you assert your own its only arbitrary.
You keep using that word....
(September 7, 2012 at 8:53 am)elunico13 Wrote: Man has no authority for setting moral standards.
Why not?
(September 7, 2012 at 8:53 am)elunico13 Wrote: Only your creator.
Why?
(September 7, 2012 at 8:53 am)elunico13 Wrote: Did you use your brain to come up with this conclusion? See the problem?
You use your brain to make these judgments and you've done nothing to show that your brain is fully developed to arrive at any valid conclusion.
I just see the fallacy of begging the question.
Well, maybe your brain isn't, but the rest of us.....
The fact that the conclusions we come to actually work in the real world means that we are capable of arriving at valid conclusions.
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RE: Why Secular Morality is Superior
September 7, 2012 at 10:37 am
James Holmes acted consistent with what evolution teaches. He evolved from an animal, and when he murdered those people, He acted like one. You can't say he's wrong since evolution made him that way.
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RE: Why Secular Morality is Superior
September 7, 2012 at 11:01 am
(September 7, 2012 at 8:53 am)elunico13 Wrote: Then don't condemn the rapist and child molester if that's the life they choose to live. How do you know that violates their conscience? And what obligation do they have to follow an an immaterial "urge" in a materialistic universe? None. It's an arbitrary standard set by padraic.
What is this "condemning" you are so fond of? You go ahead and spout self-righteous vitriol. I'd rather do something about it. Let's get the guy arrested for his asocial behavior. If he can't think of a reason not to rape women, we'll just put him in a place where he can find out how well he likes it. There are objective reasons to avoid asocial behaviors even for those with little or poor moral sense.
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RE: Why Secular Morality is Superior
September 7, 2012 at 11:06 am
(This post was last modified: September 7, 2012 at 11:18 am by The Grand Nudger.)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Why Secular Morality is Superior
September 7, 2012 at 11:36 am
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: Why Secular Morality is Superior
September 7, 2012 at 1:27 pm
Quote:So, supposing there were no eye in the sky...you can see no reason that we might want to issue moral proclamations? No god - rape is a go. No god - murder is a go. No god - theft is a go. I'm starting to feel very uncomfortable with the knowledge that you may actually believe this...and that there are people who would agree with you......
I don't believe for a minute that they really believe that. I think the moral argument is sophistry designed to provide a rationalization for the belief they already have.
How many ex-Christians do you know in your local atheist community? OK, now of those, how many of them went on a crime spree after their deconversion?
Further evidence that morality has no basis in religion.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: Why Secular Morality is Superior
September 7, 2012 at 2:41 pm
(September 7, 2012 at 11:01 am)whateverist Wrote: (September 7, 2012 at 8:53 am)elunico13 Wrote: Then don't condemn the rapist and child molester if that's the life they choose to live. How do you know that violates their conscience? And what obligation do they have to follow an an immaterial "urge" in a materialistic universe? None. It's an arbitrary standard set by padraic.
What is this "condemning" you are so fond of? You go ahead and spout self-righteous vitriol. I'd rather do something about it. Let's get the guy arrested for his asocial behavior. If he can't think of a reason not to rape women, we'll just put him in a place where he can find out how well he likes it. There are objective reasons to avoid asocial behaviors even for those with little or poor moral sense.
YEAH! lets go get 'em!
James Holmes acted consistent with what evolution teaches. He evolved from an animal, and when he murdered those people, He acted like one. You can't say he's wrong since evolution made him that way.
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RE: Why Secular Morality is Superior
September 7, 2012 at 3:24 pm
(September 7, 2012 at 2:41 pm)elunico13 Wrote: (September 7, 2012 at 11:01 am)whateverist Wrote: What is this "condemning" you are so fond of? You go ahead and spout self-righteous vitriol. I'd rather do something about it. Let's get the guy arrested for his asocial behavior. If he can't think of a reason not to rape women, we'll just put him in a place where he can find out how well he likes it. There are objective reasons to avoid asocial behaviors even for those with little or poor moral sense.
YEAH! lets go get 'em!
That was easier than I thought it would be. For the record I have no problem with your cultivating your own moral sense or comparing what you come up with to that which other deliberately 'good' people think. Have fun. It's your life. If you want to organize and compete in a sainthood olympics, go for it! You won't be hurting anyone and that's all I ask.
Just don't worry about identifying 'the' objectively best moral system of all time for all people everywhere. Most of us don't really care. We're just looking for an acceptable range of non-harmful behavior. How you pleasure yourself is your business.
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RE: Why Secular Morality is Superior
September 7, 2012 at 4:24 pm
(This post was last modified: September 7, 2012 at 4:28 pm by Ryantology.)
(September 7, 2012 at 8:53 am)elunico13 Wrote: Did you use your brain to come up with this conclusion? See the problem?
You use your brain to make these judgments and you've done nothing to show that your brain is fully developed to arrive at any valid conclusion.
I just see the fallacy of begging the question.
I see you continuing to dodge the point, which is not the basis upon which I find murder, slavery, rape, torture et. al. immoral. The question I'm asking you has nothing to do with my own morality. It has to do with why you find these behaviors immoral when your infallible, allegedly objective source of morality permits and encourages these acts.
I can only draw from your refusal to address this point the conclusion that you do find murder, slavery, rape, torture et. al. acceptable and moral.
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RE: Why Secular Morality is Superior
September 7, 2012 at 5:14 pm
(September 7, 2012 at 8:53 am)elunico13 Wrote: Did you use your brain to come up with this conclusion? See the problem?
You use your brain to make these judgments and you've done nothing to show that your brain is fully developed to arrive at any valid conclusion.
I just see the fallacy of begging the question.
There's so much stupid in these posts, I have trouble keeping up with all of it.
OK, so are we going full blown solipsism here? You can't be sure of anything so why bother?
If you're doubting whether or not your brain is reliable, how are you relying on your faith in your god, which you learned and can more-or-less process via your brain? Not only does this not get you to higher ground, logically, but you have more complications to account for than I do. I must account for why I feel my brain is accurately assessing reality (which, as Genkaus has pointed out, I see no reason to doubt my sanity). You must account for that and why you feel you both have heard the correct religion and have understood it correctly, through the very same brain you claim I can't rely on.
Ah, the stupid, it burns.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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