Afghanistan..troops out NOW!

[bozo]

" The war in Afghanistan is not reducing the terrorist risk, far from improving Afghan lives it is bringing death and devastation to their country......I implore you sir,to bring our troops home. "

The plea made to British Prime Minister Brown by Lance corporal Joe Glenton, who is facing court martial for refusing to continue serving In Afghanistan, because he believes the conflict is unlawful and is having an expert on international law represent him at the military court.
He told the press " I just couldn't see what we had given to the country. I felt ashamed. "

I applaude this man's courage and good sense for the stand he is taking. If convicted, he faces up to 2 years in jail. But that's a fair deal in my book, better than risking life and limb in an unjust and unwinnable war.
I would like to believe that the families of the fallen or mutilated in this piece of lunacy, together with those who still have sons and daughters out there, will lend their voices in support, but I fear they won't.
It always amazes me when military families get upset at the anti-war protestors, saying how we should " support " our troops. My reply is a question....what greater support can we show than campaigning for them to be brought home safely?

[Pippy]

I agree Bozo, well put!

If Barky Obama (Barry Sotero) has a lot of ground to make up on Bush Jr., he is doing well. He had his own Bailout scam, continued both wars, filled the oval office with PNC and tri-lateral thugs (again)... And we will see what an America under Friedman Economics will look like. If you do your homework, he is already heading down the wrong road. Chicago is in charge again!

[Kyuuketsuki]

We should support the troops ... ultimately it isn't them who are to blame, they are doing a difficult job with honour and no thanks. The politicians are to blame and it is their blame (or lack of) is what you should be discussing.

Kyu

[bozo]

We should support the troops ... ultimately it isn't them who are to blame, they are doing a difficult job with honour and no thanks. The politicians are to blame and it is their blame (or lack of) is what you should be discussing.

Kyu

I am supporting the troops.....I want them brought home safe!

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

We should support the troops ... ultimately it isn't them who are to blame, they are doing a difficult job with honour and no thanks.

Really. I was under the impression the US has a 100% volunteer army. The responsibility of soldiers for their actions was established by [US lead] Nuremberg Wars Crimes Tribunal in 1946,The Tribunal rejected what is now called "the Nuremberg defence" Viz " I was only following orders"


The invasion of Iraq and the prosecution of the war since is a war crime under the provisions of The Nuremberg Tribunal.


There is nothing honourable in kiling other human beings,no mater how necessary one might believe it to be.

In every war in the last 100 years, civilian deaths have ALWAYS outnumbered those of combatants.



NUREMBERG DEFENCE


The Nuremberg Defense is a legal defense that essentially states that the defendant was "only following orders" ("Befehl ist Befehl", literally "order is order") and is therefore not responsible for his crimes. The defense was most famously employed during the Nuremberg Trials, after which it is named.

Before the end of World War II, the Allies suspected such a defense might be employed, and issued the London Charter of the International Military Tribunal (IMT), which specifically stated that following an unlawful order is not a valid defense against charges of war crimes.

Thus, under Nuremberg Principle IV, "defense of superior orders" is not a defense for war crimes, although it might influence a sentencing authority to lessen the penalty. Nuremberg Principle IV states:

"The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him."

This defense is still used often, however, reasoning that an unlawful order presents a dilemma from which there is no legal escape. One who refuses an unlawful order will still probably be jailed for refusing orders, and one who accepts one will probably be jailed for committing unlawful acts, in a Catch-22 dilemma.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_d...inal_Court


See also "command responsibility"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_responsibility

ACTUAL CHARGES [made against the Germans] include:

2. Planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression and other crimes against peace

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_crimes


The invasion of Iraq has been widely interpreted as a war of aggression.

[Kyuuketsuki]

We should support the troops ... ultimately it isn't them who are to blame, they are doing a difficult job with honour and no thanks. The politicians are to blame and it is their blame (or lack of) is what you should be discussing.

I am supporting the troops.....I want them brought home safe!

Well there you and I will have to disagree.

Kyu

[bozo]

So, 201 young British troops have now perished in the badlands of Afghanistann. Add to this figure hundreds who have been wounded and mutilated in this sorry escapade.
The powers that be continue to tell me that the sacrifice is necessary and will continue until the enemy is defeated. They say that they are protecting me and keeping me safe here in England. Know what, I don't believe them. I wouldn't be quaking in my bed at night if the troops came home tomorrow, rather I'd be celebrating their safe return.

[Minimalist]

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.


-- Rudyard Kipling

(Some things never change!)

[bozo]

Thank you for the quotation Minimalist, very apt.

So, evidence that the establishment here in the UK is starting to sense that public opinion over Afghanistan is changing, no other than 'er majesty has awarded a bit of metal called grandly the " Elizabeth cross " to the widow of Shaun Upton, in recognition of his sacrifice ( blown up in Afghanistan ).
This is the first of its kind but doubtless more will be awarded for as long as the madness continues.
If I were the family, I'd tell Queeny to shove it!

And I do wish the good folk of Wooton Basset ( apologies if the spelling's wrong ) would stop lining their highstreet every time the grisly procession of military coffins is paraded there. In my view it glorifies the ingloriousness of this action.

[dry land fish]

Over 180 British soldiers, many of them very young indeed, have now perished in the badlands of Afghanistan. More than died in the Iraq conflict. I think they have died in vain, in a " war " that is unwinnable. Moreover, I don't even agree with the reason why it is taking place.
It can only be a matter of time, I hope, before public opinion forces the government to pull out. No shame in that but much shame if yet more young lives are sacrificed needlessly.
What say others?

They need to pull out and just let those Muslims kill eachother. Not many Americans support these wars and those that do are ultra conservatives. My husband was in Iraq a few years ago. He will be one of the first to say it's a bunch of crap. We look at those military families that get offended at war protestors and laugh because we are just as strongly against it.