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Is everybody equal in atheism?
#31
RE: Is everybody equal in atheism?
ummm, because atheists beleive there is no god.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism

Generally speaking in the real World, dictionaries are a good source of information, opinions however, can be bias at times.
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#32
RE: Is everybody equal in atheism?
(September 3, 2012 at 11:32 am)ib.me.ub Wrote: lol, so atheists believe nothing in terms of their atheism. I find this hard to beleive.

Bolded mine.

Way to go, seems you do understand the atheist perspective on belief, you just don't realise it.
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#33
RE: Is everybody equal in atheism?
(September 3, 2012 at 5:27 am)genkaus Wrote: There is no difference between the two positions since atheism doesn't say that it is the only truth and it doesn't say that everyone should convert to it. What you are talking about is rationalism, which is a common, though not necessary ideology giving rise to the atheism. And there are no "two paths" within it. Both of your statements are part of the same path.

For example, I believe there is singular objective truth reality, that atheism is one of those truths and yes, that the world would be a better place if everyone thought in the same manner. But ultimately, I also think that they should be free to find their own way. That does not mean that I'm saying that there are subjective truths, it simply means that I recognize their right to delude themselves.

I actually wanted to account for this position because it was a unique one: It would be the only position which would incorporate both atheism as a singular ideology, as well as defensive atheism, ie atheism that just seeks to preserve its role as coexisting with others.

But this is a special case. Ie, your statement in bold is only correct in one situation, and is wrong in every other situation.

It's not a coincidence that you hold the exact position that makes it valid. Smile

But I don't think it's an easy position to hold. On some level you will certainly feel like the world needs to know the truth and you can't sit by with lies being perpetuated.

I don't think anybody can fight that urge. Sooner or later they will move to a singular ideological position. Because you will feel like a douchebag, as I would, if I knew the truth and didn't convince the world of it.
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#34
RE: Is everybody equal in atheism?
(September 3, 2012 at 1:43 pm)ib.me.ub Wrote: ummm, because atheists beleive there is no god.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism

Generally speaking in the real World, dictionaries are a good source of information, opinions however, can be bias at times.

Like I said the first time, most atheists do not believe there is no god, but lack a belief in one, but make no claims of knowledge about the existence of one. You ignored the second, and more common, form of atheism as provided in the definition.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. - J.R.R Tolkien
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#35
RE: Is everybody equal in atheism?
(September 3, 2012 at 1:43 pm)ib.me.ub Wrote: atheists beleive there is no god.

Confusedigh: ah this old argument again? Really? Have you not been around the block before?

It's incorrect.

Atheists do not believe there is no god.

We simply do not believe in a god at all.


Do you not see the difference?

One is a positive claim, the other is not.
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#36
Is everybody equal in atheism? An analysis of two different paths for the movement
(September 3, 2012 at 8:44 am)festive1 Wrote: Are atheists inherently against religion? I think this is the question that is really being asked. As others have mentioned, there is a continuum. Some atheists see religion as able to peacefully coexist in society. Others would argue that religion is a form of control and should thereby be demolished and undermined. It's about one's personal beliefs and experiences.
It has been my personal experience that there are instances and even individuals whose experience and memories of 'reality' are quite different from what I perceive. For me, this is exemplified in my strained relationship with my parents. I recently took a statistics class, and got an A. When I told my mother she was shocked and said, "I'm surprised, you were never very good at math." Which is simply not true. I was always in honors math at school. In fact, I took the ACT exam when I was 12, after scoring in the 99th percentile on a standardized test in, you guessed it, math. Her perception of reality is very different from the actuality of what happened. The why of this incongruence is debatable and a fascinating psychological topic. The fact remains, that 'X' could have definitively happened, but some would say it never did, and still be able to pass any form of lie detector, because they truly believe their view of reality. Reality, even if it's the question of whether or not it's raining, is a subjective experience.

Your post has been one of the more fascinating ones on the topic. Thanks for sharing.

Is cognitive subjectivity a good phrase to define what you are talking about? Because that does appear to be a part of our reality.

But how seriously should we take it? Does it mean that 2+2=x will have different answers for different people?

I think there's a balance between this total cognitive subjectivity and pure objectivism/realism. (I don't mean that Ayn Rand stuff)
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#37
RE: Is everybody equal in atheism?
(September 3, 2012 at 1:44 pm)Napoléon Wrote:
(September 3, 2012 at 11:32 am)ib.me.ub Wrote: lol, so atheists believe nothing in terms of their atheism. I find this hard to beleive.

Bolded mine.

Way to go, seems you do understand the atheist perspective on belief, you just don't realise it.

lol, what does that even mean. I understand the perspective perfectly well, thats not what this is all about.

omfg, are you serious Napoleon. Negative or positive, its still a belief. And nice edit, got it before you changed it.
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#38
RE: Is everybody equal in atheism?
(September 3, 2012 at 1:47 pm)Napoléon Wrote:
(September 3, 2012 at 1:43 pm)ib.me.ub Wrote: atheists beleive there is no god.

Confusedigh: ah this old argument again? Really? Have you not been around the block before?

It's incorrect.

Atheists do not believe there is no god.

We simply do not believe in a god at all.


Do you not see the difference?

One is a positive claim, the other is not.

I used to have a lot of difficulty with this when I read Dawkins on it but I find it very helpful when I use the analogy of fairies. We don't assert there are no fairies. We just haven't got a belief in their existence. Just like the pink unicorn with black polka dots. We don't assert its non-existence. We just have no belief in the pink unicorn with black polka dots. I think the unicorn analogy makes it clearer.
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#39
RE: Is everybody equal in atheism?
(September 3, 2012 at 1:46 pm)Tobie Wrote:
(September 3, 2012 at 1:43 pm)ib.me.ub Wrote: ummm, because atheists beleive there is no god.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism

Generally speaking in the real World, dictionaries are a good source of information, opinions however, can be bias at times.

Like I said the first time, most atheists do not believe there is no god, but lack a belief in one, but make no claims of knowledge about the existence of one. You ignored the second, and more common, form of atheism as provided in the definition.

No.

dictionary Wrote:disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

If thats not a belief what is it?
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#40
RE: Is everybody equal in atheism?
(September 3, 2012 at 1:50 pm)ib.me.ub Wrote: lol, what does that even mean. I understand the perspective perfectly well, thats not what this is all about.

Facepalm I guess I'm going to have to spell this out right?

You said: "lol, so atheists believe nothing in terms of their atheism. I find this hard to beleive."

The irony of your statement is that you are using the exact same logic as atheists do with regards to their position on a deity. That we find it hard to believe, ie. we don't believe it. Except you're using it with regards to whether we believe or not. It's just incredibly ironic.

(September 3, 2012 at 1:58 pm)ib.me.ub Wrote:
dictionary Wrote:disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

If thats not a beleif what is it?

DISBELIEF. You really have trouble understanding the meanings of words don't you.

Disbelief is not the same as belief. That's the whole fucking point.
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