My thoughts on the Australian environmentalist movement

[Justtristo]

I am arguing a thesis that the Environmentalist movement (at least in Australia) basing of their agenda on new age values as opposed to basing on on empirical science, has meant that it has been prone to making catastrophic predictions which have not not eventuated.

There is a tendency in much New Age thought to think of the Earth as a whole, somehow as some kind of person. A more rational variant of this viewpoint is the Gaia hypothesis. However even the Gaia hypothesis has not been proven scientifically and it can be argued it is pseudo-science similar to Christian Creationism.

To give an example of how this thinking as infected even more scientific minded in the Environmentalist movement. Tim Flannery is one of the learned and prominent of environmentalists in Australia today. Also compared to the Environmentalists who are openly either New Age or Neo-Pagan. However Tim Flannery is very much influenced by the Gaia Hypothesis and from reading his works, I believe he has a rational version of this New Age philosophy I have discussed above.

Flannery is currently Australia's Climate Commissioner and five years ago he made some predictions. These were namely that the nation's dams would never be full again, they would need desalination plants to cater for water needs and other similar predictions. Flannery is not the only person to make such dire predictions, however given impressive academic credentials, people find it a bit surprising he of all people is making the sort of predictions that people considered “feral greenies” make.

I happen to deeply respect Tim Flannery, however he and the environmentalist movement have allowed their Gaia philosophy to inform them, when these make these predictions, which have often turned out not be true. Thus I am seeing a backlash in Australia against the Environmentalist movement, which politicians like Tony Abbott have exploited. It is very likely that once Tony Abbott becomes Prime Minister next year, his government will repeal the carbon tax and implement an energy policy which will result in the increased usage of fossil fuels. Australia will join the USA and Canada in having a do nothing approach to global warming.

If the environmentalist movement had based their predictions on solid science, I suspect they have not been so discredited as they have been in the last couple of years. Also there is a ray of hope in the environmentalist movement restoring their credibility in the eyes of the Australian public. This can be achieved by ditching this Gaia philosophy and basing their agenda fully on empirical science.

[Darth]

Keep in mind though that Malcolm Turnbull lost the liberal party leadership to Tony Abbot on that issue pretty much, but it was very close (like 1 vote).

btw for the non aussies, 'the liberal party' is actually the conservative party atm, 'Liberal party' is just the name (though they do have a more classically liberal wing, Malcom Turnbul has called himself libertarian).

[Justtristo]

Keep in mind though that Malcolm Turnbull lost the liberal party leadership to Tony Abbot on that issue pretty much, but it was very close (like 1 vote).

btw for the non aussies, 'the liberal party' is actually the conservative party atm, 'Liberal party' is just the name (though they do have a more classically liberal wing, Malcom Turnbul has called himself libertarian).

Actually I was referring to Tony Abbott's ability use public's mistrust of the environmentalist movement. That it is quite easy to force the Rudd Labor government to dump the proposed emissions trading scheme and eventually led to Kevin Rudd being deposed as Labor leader and Prime Minister.

If the environmentalist movement had more credibility among the Australian populace. It would have been much harder for the Liberal Party (with Tony Abbott leading it) to force the Labor government to dump it's proposed emissions trading scheme.

[Waratah]

.....<Snip>
Flannery is currently Australia's Climate Commissioner and five years ago he made some predictions. These were namely that the nation's dams would never be full again, they would need desalination plants to cater for water needs and other similar predictions. Flannery is not the only person to make such dire predictions, however given impressive academic credentials, people find it a bit surprising he of all people is making the sort of predictions that people considered “feral greenies” make. <Snip>....

I have found plenty of news reports of Tim Flannery's prediction in 2012 but cant find anything written in 2007 to support the idea that Flannery had said that dams would never be full again. I was hoping if you could give us a link to a report written in 2007.

[KichigaiNeko]

You must remember that politicians Of ALL stripes are opportunists.

The "Environmentalist Movement" is dead and dying because, as you say, the politicisation of the issues. The Carbon tax won't help, nor will the MRRT to stop or curb this Climate change we are going through. Is it so surprising that people are waking up to this cash grab by the government?

And STILL nothing is being done about our pollution. Has anyone got any ideas how to clean up the North Pacific Garbage Patch??

Sorry mate but "Greenies" are dead in the water as a force now...... too much hyperbole and no substance or solutions.

[Puddleglum]

The Greens were hit really really hard when the evidence came out about those scientists from the UK who were falsifying data.

[Justtristo]

.....<Snip>
Flannery is currently Australia's Climate Commissioner and five years ago he made some predictions. These were namely that the nation's dams would never be full again, they would need desalination plants to cater for water needs and other similar predictions. Flannery is not the only person to make such dire predictions, however given impressive academic credentials, people find it a bit surprising he of all people is making the sort of predictions that people considered “feral greenies” make. <Snip>....

I have found plenty of news reports of Tim Flannery's prediction in 2012 but cant find anything written in 2007 to support the idea that Flannery had said that dams would never be full again. I was hoping if you could give us a link to a report written in 2007.

Flannery's book The Weather Makers makes the predictions I am describing,

---

You must remember that politicians Of ALL stripes are opportunists.

The "Environmentalist Movement" is dead and dying because, as you say, the politicisation of the issues. The Carbon tax won't help, nor will the MRRT to stop or curb this Climate change we are going through. Is it so surprising that people are waking up to this cash grab by the government?

And STILL nothing is being done about our pollution. Has anyone got any ideas how to clean up the North Pacific Garbage Patch??

Sorry mate but "Greenies" are dead in the water as a force now...... too much hyperbole and no substance or solutions.

The environmentalist movement in Australia is wounded, however I don't think it is dying. Although I would not blame this wounding on what you say politicization of the issues. However I would blame it them basing their positions on new age superstition as opposed to science. Australians have a tendency turn off from people who have strident religious views, this goes for those who are New Age as well as Christian.

The MRRT in some form (as a replacement for state mining royalties) was actually first proposed in the Henry Tax Review back in 2010, which overall I thought the best way to achieve much needed tax reform for Australia. The current Labor federal government thought this was a good idea and decided to introduce it (without replacing the state mining royalties). So it was not the Greens idea in the first place, however they did support it.

[Waratah]

I have found plenty of news reports of Tim Flannery's prediction in 2012 but cant find anything written in 2007 to support the idea that Flannery had said that dams would never be full again. I was hoping if you could give us a link to a report written in 2007.

Flannery's book The Weather Makers makes the predictions I am describing,

Admittedly I have not read the book but so far in his interviews and the reviews of the book there is no mention of the predictions.
The 2012 news reports say that he made predictions in 2007 not when he wrote the book, which was in 2005. The 2012 news reports are from liberal loving journalists. The link in one of the reports where he supposedly made the predictions says no such thing. This is what he said. Transcript of Landline interview 2007

PROFESSOR TIM FLANNERY: We're already seeing the initial impacts and they include a decline in the winter rainfall zone across southern Australia, which is clearly an impact of climate change, but also a decrease in run-off. Although we're getting say a 20 per cent decrease in rainfall in some areas of Australia, that's translating to a 60 per cent decrease in the run-off into the dams and rivers. That's because the soil is warmer because of global warming and the plants are under more stress and therefore using more moisture. So even the rain that falls isn't actually going to fill our dams and our river systems, and that's a real worry for the people in the bush. If that trend continues then I think we're going to have serious problems, particularly for irrigation.

You can see quite clearly it has been taken out of context.