Here We Go Again!

[Tobie]

Atheists/agnostics/deists probably do what christians call "sin" a lot bloody less than christians do (just looking at prison population statistics) except because we didn't want to join the god club, we're apparently all going to burn in hell.

[The Grand Nudger]

Yeah, I don't know about sins not existing. Sins is synonymous to bad deeds. Do you believe you can't do any bad deeds?

Yeah, um......no, they're not. You can "sin" all day long without having ever done a single damned "bad deed". Just because some ignorant fuckwit feels it is his duty to berate a person for something he's made a negative value judgement of doesn't make it a bad deed, just makes him a judgemental asshole. You know the worst kind of judgemental assholes? Judgemental assholes by excuse and proxy.

"You're a dirty sinner, I mean, you know, it's not my opinion, I'm not judging you, it's just that there's this god guy who is....and I totally agree with him - you dirty sinner."

[Drich]

[quote='Cinjin' pid='337780' dateline='1347939715']
[quote]You are merely quoting your particular brand of christianity and the pastor that brainwashes you weekly. I can find a dozen christians who would disagree with you in a moment. I'm going to need to see your True Christian™ card.[/quote]My "particular brand of Christianity" happens to coinside with the bible. In that I can provide verses (if you wish) of each instance where the sins you have identified (by name) are indeed considered to be sin.

[quote]On a side note, I have NEVER expressed this idea to you ... ever:[/quote]I have been penialized with points (75 if I remember correctly) for preaching, When you click on the link you provide it is a post of mine that happens to contain scripture. Sorry if your actions confused me.

[quote]Quote your verses and do it often. I rather enjoy it.[/quote]
Noted.

[Cinjin]

I'd like to touch back a bit on the idiocy that Drich offered us. HIS particular brand of christardary tells him that these actions are sin regardless.

Lying
Gossip
Lust
Hate

I call bull shit. These are only sins to a douche bag of a god that doesn't care to pay attention to the reasoning behind an action. Which is EXACTLY what Drich said his god would say. Too fucking bad, the following story is full of sin:

It's 1946 and I saw a beautiful woman on the streets of Berlin. She was sexy as fuck and I asked her out in the hopes of possibly falling in love and marrying the woman of my dreams. On our first date she begins to tell me of rumors she heard that a large group of jewish children were hidden in a cellar and in need of transportation out of the city. I of course am willing to find out if these rumors are true because I hate the Nazi's for the atrocities they are committing against the human race. Upon finding these jewish refugee children, I am questioned by Nazi officers on whether I have seen these children. I of course tell them that I have not seen them and that I will start looking for them immediately so that I can help Dur Fuhrer.

Upon successfully smuggling a bus load of innocent jewish children out of Berlin, I am quickly punished by god for the sins of lust, gossip, hate and lying.

The notion of these actions being universally sinful is just ABSOLUTE STUPIDITY - dreamed up by FUCKING IDIOTS and sold to others by brainless sheep. Not everything is black and white and just because some fool who proclaims himself an authority on the bible says that something is a sin doesn't make it so ... not even to his fellow christians.

[greneknight]

I'd like to touch back a bit on the idiocy that Drich offered us. HIS particular brand of christardary tells him that these actions are sin regardless.

Lying
Gossip
Lust
Hate

I call bull shit. These are only sins to a douche bag of a god that doesn't care to pay attention to the reasoning behind an action. Which is EXACTLY what Drich said his god would say. Too fucking bad, the following story is full of sin:

It's 1946 and I saw a beautiful woman on the streets of Berlin. She was sexy as fuck and I asked her out in the hopes of possibly falling in love and marrying the woman of my dreams. On our first date she begins to tell me of rumors she heard that a large group of jewish children were hidden in a cellar and in need of transportation out of the city. I of course am willing to find out if these rumors are true because I hate the Nazi's for the atrocities they are committing against the human race. Upon finding these jewish refugee children, I am questioned by Nazi officers on whether I have seen these children. I of course tell them that I have not seen them and that I will start looking for them immediately so that I can help Dur Fuhrer.

Upon successfully smuggling a bus load of innocent jewish children out of Berlin, I am quickly punished by god for the sins of lust, gossip, hate and lying.

The notion of these actions being universally sinful is just ABSOLUTE STUPIDITY - dreamed up by FUCKING IDIOTS and sold to others by brainless sheep. Not everything is black and white and just because some fool who proclaims himself an authority on the bible says that something is a sin doesn't make it so ... not even to his fellow christians.

You are absolutely right. In fact, the Bible allows for the telling of lies if it serves God's nefarious and evil purposes. Rahab told a lie to her own people when they thought two Israeli spies had entered Jericho. Rahab did it knowing full well that the whole city would be destroyed and every man, woman, child and baby killed by God's merciful army. So she lied upon the spies' promise to spare her and her family. But her lie led to the death of the whole city. In Hebrews, Rahab is praised for telling lies and causing the death of thousands of innocent people including children and babies and she was said to be "faithful". If that is God's morality, I shudder to think what he's like when he's immoral.

[Reforged]

Sorry but I feel I really need to represent the people who do not claim in any way, shape or form to be intrinsically moral creatures.
Just because someone doesn't have a strong affinity to morality doesn't mean they're going to start skullfucking every person they come across. I mean what would their motivation be?
Even if there were no law would it be beneficial to me to actually go to the effort of going out, finding someone I take a particular disliking to and then go through the physical exertion of taking their life?
No, it wouldn't. It'd be a stupid and pointless waste of time, effort and life. Especially when you consider that person could of been useful to me later. Even if they possessed something I wanted it wouldn't be the most beneficial outcome to me.
The best acts of self interest are the ones that result in a good outcome for everyone. Forming alliances is more beneficial than short-term gain as it will usually result in long-term gain. Just because someone is a-moral does not mean they will automatically pursue immoral actions.
For someone to go around carrying out immoral acts on others that will gain them a rather negative reputation and many enemies can't simply be a-moral. That person would need to be a complete moron too.
On a side note the only type of society this doesn't seem to be the case are the fanatically religious ones where the mere invocation of God to "sanctify" such acts seems sufficient to nullify any such concerns.
Just sayin'.

[Angrboda]

I find that after telling people I worship a goddess known as "She who destroys," I don't tend to get a lot of moral sermonizing.




"In nature there are neither rewards nor punishments; there are consequences."
Robert Ingersoll

[Faith No More]

The notion of these actions being universally sinful is just ABSOLUTE STUPIDITY - dreamed up by FUCKING IDIOTS and sold to others by brainless sheep. Not everything is black and white and just because some fool who proclaims himself an authority on the bible says that something is a sin doesn't make it so ... not even to his fellow christians.

Christianity needs these little sins, and it needs them to be on par with the more heinous ones. If only things like murder and rape were sins, not many people are going to require Jesus' sacrifice. If these little, inescapable actions are sins, however, everyone is going to need to be absolved. It's a doctrine that is less about morality and more about attracting members.

Nothing is ever as black and white as religion makes it out to be.

[Violet]

Who needs an excuse to be themselves? Only people who can't get over themselves

[Drich]

[quote='MysticKnight' pid='337782' dateline='1347939967']
I also don't see how Christianity redeems sins....I can see Christians redeeming themselves from sins, but I can't see how Christianity does that, it particular the sacrifice of Jesus.

There is a video by darkmatter about this, let me post it.
[/quote]

The short answer is God's Creation, God's rules. The wonderful thing about salvation is you do not have to completely understand it to accept it.

---

[quote='Puddleglum' pid='337783' dateline='1347939987']
[quote]This goes against the whole doctrine of Christianity that holds that w have fee will.[/quote]i love it when you guys defend christianity, or at least your approximation of it. If you believe this to be true then from here on live a live free from sin. Live a day without sin.. Or if you don't want to, but want to keep argueing, then simply provide book Chappter and verse that all Christians would be bound to.
[quote]
It is also a an extremely nasty form of blackmail.[/quote]How so?

[quote]Essentially you Christians claim we suffer from a condition called sin, that we have no control over, and the only remedy is to embrace Christianity (with all its demands) and if we don't we will be eternally tortured.[/quote]noope. God gives us an option. Either we spend eternity with Him or an eternity seperated from Him. "sin" or rather the redemption of it is the choice we get to make the echos in eternity.

[quote]Frankly you should all be imprisoned for extortion.[/quote]
If you think you can then bring it. (It would not be the first time this sort of thing happened)