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RE: When Faith and Science Clash
September 20, 2012 at 2:07 pm
If all science was wrong there still would not be a reason to believe in a god.
There were atheists before there were scientists.
There seems to be a tendency for theists to link atheism to this or that tenet of science then attack it. This tack makes no sense to me because I am not an atheist because of science but because hypothosis of the christian god is silly.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
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RE: When Faith and Science Clash
September 20, 2012 at 2:57 pm
(This post was last modified: September 20, 2012 at 2:58 pm by Faith No More.)
genkaus Wrote:I think you are confusing cognitive facilities with something else. "Experiencing the divine" sounds like an emotional state - not a cognitive one.
True, it could be an emotional state, but no, I was referring to being able to perceive personal experiences as valid or not. For example, a poster came by here once claiming that he had become unsure of god's existence and was having doubts about his faith, however, he still went to church. One day he was surrounded by church members who started praying for him, and he felt an overwhelming warm presence that he concluded must be god. I believe he even said he was knocked to his feet by it. Any attempt to explain to him that his brain was a highly flawed organ and it was most likely a flawed experience was dismissed.
Nearly every theist eventually will stop arguing their religion from a point of logic and claim that god is present in their lives, and that his how he/she knows god exists. It is they that rely too highly on their cognitive faculties.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: When Faith and Science Clash
September 20, 2012 at 5:10 pm
(September 20, 2012 at 10:54 am)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote: The fine tuning of the initial conditions of our universe to support life is simply incredible.
First, it is highly unlikely that our big bang is, was or will ever be the only possible universe.
That said, of all the past, present and future universes, this just happens to be the one we are in and the only one of which we can be aware. We cannot be in one that does not support life.
There may have been a 'gazillion' universes before one had the right conditions for us to come into existence. Regardless of the infinitesimally small chance, we are here by chance. No magic, no sky daddy.
And yes, it is incredible, but it is not due to "fine tuning".
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
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God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
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Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
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RE: When Faith and Science Clash
September 20, 2012 at 5:38 pm
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RE: When Faith and Science Clash
September 20, 2012 at 5:41 pm
(This post was last modified: September 20, 2012 at 5:46 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
And........seriously, and? I thought you were going to be providing some sort of case for ID, not a listing of the requirements of -insert anything here-, which - had they not been met- you would not be standing here blathering on about them.
Seriously disappointing Jeff, you claimed you had something that you did not.
"This is incredible, ergo god". Sigh.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: When Faith and Science Clash
September 20, 2012 at 5:44 pm
(September 20, 2012 at 5:38 pm)Reasonable_Jeff Wrote: These number/conditions are incredible!
Indeed, they are. But just because something is against the odds, it doesn't mean that it can't happen. We are pretty good proof of that, no divinity required.
When I was young, there was a god with infinite power protecting me. Is there anyone else who felt that way? And was sure about it? but the first time I fell in love, I was thrown down - or maybe I broke free - and I bade farewell to God and became human. Now I don't have God's protection, and I walk on the ground without wings, but I don't regret this hardship. I want to live as a person. -Arina Tanemura
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RE: When Faith and Science Clash
September 20, 2012 at 5:45 pm
So you're suggesting that instead of going with what evidence tells us is correct, we should throw all that out the window because what actually happened is so damn unlikely that it just had to be magic? And here was me being all optimistic, you calling yourself reasonable and all. Maybe you were modelling yourself after the ironically named Democratic Republic of the Congo? Who knows, I'm just rambling know anyway. Back to the point, you actually think we're going to take you seriously if you advocate throwing your lot in with a completely unsupported hypothesis?
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. - J.R.R Tolkien
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RE: When Faith and Science Clash
September 20, 2012 at 5:46 pm
Win the lottery once...that's fine chance. Win it again, and again, and again....I think that points to a pattern....
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RE: When Faith and Science Clash
September 20, 2012 at 5:48 pm
(September 20, 2012 at 5:46 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Win the lottery once...that's fine chance. Win it again, and again, and again....I think that points to a pattern....
Probabilities a bitch.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. - J.R.R Tolkien
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RE: When Faith and Science Clash
September 20, 2012 at 5:50 pm
(This post was last modified: September 20, 2012 at 5:51 pm by Haydn2.)
You must get this probability nonsense out of your head . Out of the immeasurable amount of current realitys that could of come to pass ....... all are stupendously unlikely in equal . No reality couldn't come from stupendous odds. And ours is no different.
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