Posts: 2844
Threads: 169
Joined: August 24, 2012
Reputation:
46
RE: Separation of church and state you say?
October 9, 2012 at 4:43 pm
(October 9, 2012 at 4:13 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: Sween has rather strict 'hate speech' laws that led to a pastor being arrested for preaching against homosexuality. Eventually he was acquitted, but the laws themselves have never been repealed and in theory could be used for the same thing. I think 'hate speech' laws are some of the worst things imaginable next to anti-blasphemy laws.
Fortunately, that's something the US has been pretty progressive with compared to many other industrialized nations. France and Germany, for example, have specific laws about what you can say or do about world war 2, the holocaust and nazi Germany, but none of those laws apply in the US. I even think ebay got into a bit of a fit with France over that when someone wanted to sell Nazi memorabilia.
As for the laws in question, yeah, the laws are there, but they wouldn't hold up if challenged, so the laws themselves are kinda inconsequential. I think the most frustrating thing about them is that there are still people out there who will defend them.
I live on facebook. Come see me there. http://www.facebook.com/tara.rizzatto
"If you cling to something as the absolute truth and you are caught in it, when the truth comes in person to knock on your door you will refuse to let it in." ~ Siddhartha Gautama
Posts: 2
Threads: 0
Joined: October 2, 2012
Reputation:
0
RE: Separation of church and state you say?
October 9, 2012 at 5:55 pm
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2012 at 5:56 pm by Antropos.)
This is extremely interesting. I find it ironic how many people classify atheism as a "form of religion," yet when they make laws they ban them from holding office because of their beliefs.
Posts: 5172
Threads: 364
Joined: September 25, 2012
Reputation:
61
RE: Separation of church and state you say?
October 9, 2012 at 6:00 pm
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2012 at 6:02 pm by Something completely different.)
(October 9, 2012 at 5:55 pm)Antropos Wrote: This is extremely interesting. I find it ironic how many people classify atheism as a "form of religion," yet when they make laws they ban them from holding office because of their beliefs.
can you prove that? It might be something cultural, I know that atheist are not being treated well by the public especialy in the souther US, but getting fired out of a public office, state job or other sounds very harsh to me. So harsh that I dont believe it.
Posts: 3117
Threads: 16
Joined: September 17, 2012
Reputation:
35
RE: Separation of church and state you say?
October 9, 2012 at 6:47 pm
(This post was last modified: October 9, 2012 at 6:48 pm by Darkstar.)
(October 9, 2012 at 6:00 pm)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: It might be something cultural, I know that atheist are not being treated well by the public especialy in the souther US, but getting fired out of a public office, state job or other sounds very harsh to me. So harsh that I dont believe it.
Well...
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/reli...8_st_n.htm
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyath...his-story/
Note that these both involve religion oriented institutions, but still...
Unless you were only referring to political offices, because neither of these is a political office firing.
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
Posts: 5172
Threads: 364
Joined: September 25, 2012
Reputation:
61
RE: Separation of church and state you say?
October 9, 2012 at 7:10 pm
(October 9, 2012 at 6:47 pm)Darkstar Wrote: Well...
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/reli...8_st_n.htm
that`s one of the most depressing things I have read in a long time.
Now a maths teachers religious or non religious views are not subject of interest in a maths lesson. If she wasn`t "preaching" anything, I dont know how she lost her job, exept of course, if the catholic churchs policie includes not hireing non-catholics.
what upsets me most about this story is this:
Quote:The Register said that during her unemployment hearing, the school's business manager Tim Hancock testified that Nurre had violated the principles of the Catholic church by joining Atheist Nexus.
"She should be denied unemployment benefits for being a member of an atheist website," Hancock said.
(October 9, 2012 at 6:47 pm)Darkstar Wrote: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyath...his-story/
rather confusing. I mean, it`s obvious that one will leave or get kicked out of a "christian" rockband, when becoming an atheist.
by the way what is "christian rock"?
Posts: 3117
Threads: 16
Joined: September 17, 2012
Reputation:
35
RE: Separation of church and state you say?
October 9, 2012 at 7:23 pm
(October 9, 2012 at 7:10 pm)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: rather confusing. I mean, it`s obvious that one will leave or get kicked out of a "christian" rockband, when becoming an atheist.
by the way what is "christian rock"?
1. Yeah, that one made more sense.
2. I'm honestly not sure... I think it is rock music with religiously themed lyrics. http://atheistforums.org/thread-15064-po...#pid343220
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
Posts: 19788
Threads: 57
Joined: September 24, 2010
Reputation:
85
RE: Separation of church and state you say?
October 9, 2012 at 8:15 pm
(October 9, 2012 at 7:10 pm)The_Germans_are_coming Wrote: by the way what is "christian rock"?
The thing that rests between the ears of christians.
Posts: 30673
Threads: 2117
Joined: May 24, 2012
Reputation:
71
RE: Separation of church and state you say?
October 9, 2012 at 9:01 pm
(October 9, 2012 at 5:55 pm)Antropos Wrote: This is extremely interesting. I find it ironic how many people classify atheism as a "form of religion," yet when they make laws they ban them from holding office because of their beliefs.
Um you missunderstand what that survey means when it uses the word "nones", it strictly is talking about people who don't claim a specific label of any religion, it doesn't mean all of those people are atheists. But of course atheists would be part of the "nones".
And those state laws were written back when most people were very religious, but those laws in a couple of generations no one will care to uphold or keep considering if that trend to "nones" keeps growing.
Posts: 2844
Threads: 169
Joined: August 24, 2012
Reputation:
46
RE: Separation of church and state you say?
October 10, 2012 at 12:15 am
(October 9, 2012 at 9:01 pm)Brian37 Wrote: And those state laws were written back when most people were very religious, but those laws in a couple of generations no one will care to uphold or keep considering if that trend to "nones" keeps growing.
What worries me is that you may wind up being wrong. The religious people of the United States are getting crazier and crazier and they aren't afraid to show how crazy they are anymore. The idea of them having some kind of civil war where they find their own patch of land they turn into JesusLand™ isn't out of the question, nor is it out of the question that they could manipulate the masses into voting for their candidate, even if they aren't especially religious. These people scare me.
I live on facebook. Come see me there. http://www.facebook.com/tara.rizzatto
"If you cling to something as the absolute truth and you are caught in it, when the truth comes in person to knock on your door you will refuse to let it in." ~ Siddhartha Gautama
Posts: 30673
Threads: 2117
Joined: May 24, 2012
Reputation:
71
RE: Separation of church and state you say?
October 10, 2012 at 6:31 am
(October 10, 2012 at 12:15 am)TaraJo Wrote: (October 9, 2012 at 9:01 pm)Brian37 Wrote: And those state laws were written back when most people were very religious, but those laws in a couple of generations no one will care to uphold or keep considering if that trend to "nones" keeps growing.
What worries me is that you may wind up being wrong. The religious people of the United States are getting crazier and crazier and they aren't afraid to show how crazy they are anymore. The idea of them having some kind of civil war where they find their own patch of land they turn into JesusLand™ isn't out of the question, nor is it out of the question that they could manipulate the masses into voting for their candidate, even if they aren't especially religious. These people scare me. When you look at evolution it is clear that humans fear change. And you look at all revolutions that go from fascism to freedom or freedom to fascism, what is going on is a tipping point where resorces lack and a conflict creates a power grab.
While it is true the future is not certain, the only thing that would insure a Jesus Land would be the silence of those who value pluralism and anti monopoly. I think it is still vertually impossible for them to get absolute power. But their pushback does scare me and that makes it all the more important for progressives of all labels to get involved and push back ourselves.
Ultimately on a planet of 7 billion I find it increasingly absurd for any political or religious label to strive for a fascist state. But one sure fire way to allow that to happen is to do nothing. I think in the west all you can do is keep fascism at bay, but none of us, not them or us should strive for utopias. The real world is diverse and complex.
|
