The arrogance of Western society

[jonb]

Hooray for arrogance!
Its what the west has been loosing, and that is why, it is less confident of its position in the world.
Doctors that have to justify their diagnosis to patient's are going to have to be better, than witch doctors, who say 'It is magic, just do what I say'.
Question everything and everyone, that is how science works

[CapnAwesome]

Ironically there is quite a bit of arrogance in your post as well in thinking that this is exclusively the 'western attitude' Go to the third world and ask them what they would do different with their local football team and they will tell you a mouthful. All of those things have nothing to do with the first world/third world. I spend almost half my year in the 'third world' and those attitudes are universal amongst humans. Maybe it's just humans who are arrogant.

[Ryantology]

Is this opposed to the average person simply deferring to higher authority in all matters?

Screw that.

Let's say, for some strange reason, at one point in your life, you NEEDED to know something really complicated about, The Star Wars movies.

Nobody could really blame you for not spending all your life learning all the details about Star Wars.

And if you were a Star wars expert you certainly wouldn't appreciate someone telling you the "real" reason capt picard kicked luke skywalker down a mountain on the death star.....when he's neever even seen the fucking movie much less wasted his whole life studying the movies over and over. Just because he happens to need the information at the moment.......too win a bet, let's say

In this instance, then yes, deferring to the clearly more knowledgeable party is best. But, this is a pretty simple example you've offered, in which one party is clearly right and the other wrong.

When the question is 'how do we fix the economy', what is the 'right' answer? What do we do when the alleged authorities on the subject can't even agree on an approach to the problem much less craft a solution to it?

I defer to authority when that authority earns the right to my deference by a clear demonstration of superior expertise. I defy authority and posit my own ideas when I'm truly convinced mine are better than whatever else is out there. Usually, I'm somewhere in the middle of that.

However, I think no authority should ever be unquestioned.

[festive1]

I have to say, what bothers me about Western arrogance is how it pertains to views of the third world. Like the idea that Africa would magically be all better if they just had nice democratic leaders. Instead, why not foster democratic ideas in tandem with African ones? This would create an organic form of democracy that would be entirely African, rather than an imposed Western system. And who is to say that Western ideas are the best? Best for the West, perhaps (though definitely not always), but best for the entire world... hardly.
As for your doctor example... I had my kids at home with a midwife and wouldn't go to an OB/GYN unless there was a medical problem. My big reason is because doctors are trained in medical problems, not the natural process of childbirth. Doing things like putting women on a 12 hour time limit for laboring, when things are going fine for both mom and baby (of course it's different if mom is pooped and/or baby is in distress), is just silly and has led to the US's 30% c-section rate, which isn't good for moms or babies. Don't even get me started on OBs who think every woman needs an episiotomy...

[Hughsie]

Ironically there is quite a bit of arrogance in your post as well in thinking that this is exclusively the 'western attitude' Go to the third world and ask them what they would do different with their local football team and they will tell you a mouthful. All of those things have nothing to do with the first world/third world. I spend almost half my year in the 'third world' and those attitudes are universal amongst humans. Maybe it's just humans who are arrogant.

I don't know it's exclusively Western. I haven't been to any non-Western countries though so I can't comment on them.

[Angrboda]

I am a student of east and west. I find no fundamental difference in levels of arrogance. It just takes different forms in different places.


(I have an experienced Buddhist who has abandoned the path of intellectualism who thinks he can answer my deep questions, simply, because he "thinks" he's more experienced than I am. I am tired and lost patience this evening, and told him bluntly, thank you for offering to answer my questions, but you do not have the answers. "Arrogance is not a revolutionary virtue / and only liberates the mad bulldozers of the mind / to level the ground." ~ Marge Piercy, Song Of The Fucked Duck)

[Creed of Heresy]

Arrogance is everywhere. It's not a result of society, it's a result of humanity. It only truly becomes bothersome to me when it is wholly unwarranted...if it has base, it's cockiness, if it's baseless, it's arrogance.

The western world is cocky. Not arrogant. It has basis in its cock-suredness.

[Angrboda]

Arrogance is everywhere. It's not a result of society, it's a result of humanity. It only truly becomes bothersome to me when it is wholly unwarranted...if it has base, it's cockiness, if it's baseless, it's arrogance.

The western world is cocky. Not arrogant. It has basis in its cock-suredness.

This is in some sense true, but he's losing his grip, and I don't want to get it in the eye.

[Angrboda]

Speaking of arrogance, I recently had a run in with my then-current Buddhist reading group. An organizer of the group, with whom I had been working the issue out, suggested that I ask him my questions about the Dharma (the teachings), as I had expressed the fact that I had doubts about some of the Buddha's teachings. He asked me which ones, and I said that the doctrine of Anatta (no self) was the main one, but that I didn't think that he personally had the answers which I was seeking. In addition to being forcibly dis-elected from the group, he replied, as follows:

"You may not wish to hear the answers from me, but I do know the doctrine of Anatta well." [emphasis mine]

Not "my understanding of.." or even "what the answers I know are..". Nope. THE ANSWERS

Proof positive that advanced knowledge of Buddhism is no immunization against the mad bulldozers of the mind. I'd much rather study those mad bulldozers, anyway. At least we can actually study those empirically.

[Anomalocaris]

Does anyone else find the breath-taking arrogance of the average Westerner scary sometimes? I admit that I'm probably nearly as guilty as anyone, most of us here probably are.

The examples of this are everywhere.

We probably all know someone who claims that if they were in charge they could end the current economic issue. Think about what these people are saying, they are saying that they know better than every economist out there, that they could single handedly solve a problem affecting most of the globe.

I know someone who went to the doctors and got what sounded like an unusual diagnoses. Most of our mutual friends talked at length about how incompetent the doctor must be. A few even said she shouldn't take the medication she was prescribed as it was clearly the wrong diagnoses. This is a bunch of people with no medical knowledge or experience suddenly claiming to know more about medicine than a fucking GP! Claiming to be able to make a better diagnoses of a patient without any sort of examination than a GP who has looked into the issue at length.

We probably all know someone who's claimed that defence policy isn't as good as it should be, or maybe they claim that the approach in Afghanistan and Iraq was completely wrong and they could have handled it much better. They honestly believe that without any military training or experience, or even access to the documents on the issue, that they could do a better job than someone with 40 years of experience and access to all the documents pertaining to the conflict!

Sports come into this as well. We've all heard sports fans rant on about how their particular team's manager has got all the tactical decisions wrong in a match. That they know better than the guy who is paid six-figures a week to do his job. They don't even realise how ludicrous it sounds.

Anyone else find this sort of thing scary (and down fight frustrating)? And does anyone have any ideas as to what may cause such an overly inflated ego in practically entire populations?

It's only because of your western ethnocentrism, and lack of appreciation for the hubris has been shown by other cultures in other times, that you would so vaingloriously exaggerate the relative arrogance of your culture in relationship to those of others.