Who won the vice-presidental debate last night?

[festive1]

Every other statement that came out of Ryan's mouth was factually untrue... If you can win on lies, then I guess we've all lost.

Sigh...why can't dems just recognize disagreement for what it is, without having to accuse others of lying? What did Ryan "lie" about?

He lied about the effectiveness of the stimulus, saying it only went to Obama's cronies, which is untrue.
He lied about Iran's nuclear capabilities.
He blamed Obama for watering down the sanctions against Iran, then immediately said that it was Russia that watered them down, then went back to blaming Obama for the watered down sanctions. See, sanctions only work if all countries are willing to go along with them... Obama (or any president) doesn't have any control over what other countries like Russia and China do. So he put forth sanctions he thought would pass in the UN, rather than the proposed sanctions the Republican congress wanted. This is demonstrative of Obama's pragmatism rather than a failure on his part.
Ryan point-blank refused to answer questions regarding specifics of balancing the budget. Instead he implied that a plan would have to be worked out with congress, which is true enough. HOWEVER, one cannot promise to cut the deficit by a specific number without a plan as to how to achieve it (if it gets approved by congress or not is another matter entirely). I call this a lie of omission, he can't do what he's promising because it's not mathematically possible, which he won't admit, so he's all mysterious about how it's going to happen.

[Whateverist]

Sigh...why can't dems just recognize disagreement for what it is, without having to accuse others of lying? What did Ryan "lie" about?

Okay, I was going to say he lied about STUFF!!!

He lied about the effectiveness of the stimulus, saying it only went to Obama's cronies, which is untrue.
He lied about Iran's nuclear capabilities.
He blamed Obama for watering down the sanctions against Iran, then immediately said that it was Russia that watered them down, then went back to blaming Obama for the watered down sanctions. See, sanctions only work if all countries are willing to go along with them... Obama (or any president) doesn't have any control over what other countries like Russia and China do. So he put forth sanctions he thought would pass in the UN, rather than the proposed sanctions the Republican congress wanted. This is demonstrative of Obama's pragmatism rather than a failure on his part.
Ryan point-blank refused to answer questions regarding specifics of balancing the budget. Instead he implied that a plan would have to be worked out with congress, which is true enough. HOWEVER, one cannot promise to cut the deficit by a specific number without a plan as to how to achieve it (if it gets approved by congress or not is another matter entirely). I call this a lie of omission, he can't do what he's promising because it's not mathematically possible, which he won't admit, so he's all mysterious about how it's going to happen.

.. but this is much better. You go girl.

[Tino]

Festive, you didn't provide any specific quotes, and I'm not going to look them all up, so I'll just take the first one you cited.

He lied about the effectiveness of the stimulus, saying it only went to Obama's cronies, which is untrue.

Here's the text from the transcript that I think you're referring to:

REP. RYAN: Let's not forget that they came in with one-party control. When Barack Obama was elected, his party controlled everything. They had the ability to do everything of their choosing, and look at where we are right now. They passed a stimulus, the idea that we could borrow $831 billion, spend it on all these special interest groups and that it would work out just fine, that unemployment would never get to 8 percent. It went up above 8 percent for 43 months. They said that right now, if we just pass this stimulus, the economy would grow at 4 percent. It's growing at 1.3 (percent).

MS. RADDATZ: When could you get it below 6 percent?

REP. RYAN: That's what our entire premise of our pro-growth plan for a stronger middle class is all about: getting the economy growing at 4 percent, creating 12 million jobs over the next four years. Look at just the $90 billion in stimulus, and — and the vice president was in charge of overseeing this, $90 billion in green pork to campaign contributors and special interest groups. There are just at the Department of Energy over 100 criminal investigations that have been launched into just how —

Where's the lie?

[Polaris]

I can say American loses if we allow either of these two idiots in power.

[Creed of Heresy]

America: Systematically fucked over since the turn of the 20th century.

[Whateverist]

I can say American loses if we allow either of these two idiots in power.

Not if, when. Beyond a doubt, one of the two main parties will win the election. A shame for the Iranians or Syrians who will have to die at our hands if the republican war machine manages to get back into power.

[Polaris]

I can say American loses if we allow either of these two idiots in power.

Not if, when. Beyond a doubt, one of the two main parties will win the election. A shame for the Iranians or Syrians who will have to die at our hands if the republican war machine manages to get back into power.

It's a shame Obama is in power for their sake. In most nations, he would have long ago been impeached and imprisoned for life because of his grievous war crimes.

[festive1]

It's a shame Obama is in power for their sake. In most nations, he would have long ago been impeached and imprisoned for life because of his grievous war crimes.

War crimes?? You wanna know who needs to be locked up for war crimes? Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfield. I'm not going to defend Obama for his war crimes, but if we're going to put people on trial, let's start at the beginning!

@Tino
Your defense of Ryan's statement isn't really a defense. We got a tax break for installing a green, tankless water heater in our home. Neither me, nor my husband gave any money to Obama or the DNC. I have never met Obama and am certainly not a crony of his. Was some of that 90 billion given to businesses that failed, yes. But to say it was all wasted thusly is inaccurate, ie. a lie.

---

@Tino continued (sorry, I'm on my phone and had to look at your other statements):
As for Romney's plan to grow the economy at 4%, etc. That's just fine and dandy, but again he didn't and won't discuss how he is going to go about achieving these things. You can't say, I'm going to produce these results, without an actual, detailed plan as how to get there. Just some vague notion of "elect me and you'll see how I can work magic" doesn't cut it and still falls into my view of lying by omission.

[A Theist]

The real winners to emerge from the VP debate are Biden's dentist and the late night comedians....so when did Biden and the Obama administration finally realize that the Benghazi attack on our embassy was actually a terrorist attack?....and why did the State Department ignore requests from our Lybian embassy for more security?

[Whateverist]

Man we have to get a republican back in office to look after our national security. George W fielded the intel so much better in protecting us on 9/11. [/sarcasm]