Anarchism

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

What makes you think government as it is now isn't voluntary? To me, a government run country is like a home owner's association neighborhood just run on a much much larger scale. Government isn't violating your "right to property" or "right to life" because you essentially agreed to have your absolute right to property and life limited by virtue of residing in the country.

[JefferyHale]

Wow, ten replies thus far! Impressive. Glad I created this thread. I'm sure, as time goes on & as my carpal tunnel worsens, this thread will continue to grow. Let it be known, I believe in a subjective world-view. Therefore, as Nietzsche said: "There are no facts, only interpretations."

"No man’s life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session." -Mark Twain (1866 )

A lot of you are extrapolating on a pragmatic stance, where as I am coming from a philosophical point of view. The very definition of theft is to take from someone without their consent & to do with that in which has been stolen as the thief (in this case government) sees fit. As the first video stated, I never signed this social contract allowing the fruits of my labors to be sold against my will. That in which I make is my property & those that take my property without my consent are committing theft. Now, we, as a society like to dress it up & make it something different when it's the government/state, but that does not lend any credence to the argument that I somehow reap benefits from the money that's stolen from me. It doesn't hold water & can easily be negated by a plethora of scenarios, which I will elaborate on more at a later time.

But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist.
- Lysander Spooner

Integrity & sincerity are ancient tomes in the dust bins of history. The oppressive nature that is this country sickens me. Everyone is fighting for some common good, yet the common good is only for those whom are weak, incompetent & lazy. The down-trodden have been enthroned & the virtuous dethroned. We reward failure & chastise those who do well. We have made it a character flaw to be wealthy & to be successful. We have substituted lending a hand to duty. Somewhere along the way, we became weak. We became a nation riddled with helpless leaches & psychic vampires. We are no longer a nation of strong, hard working, individuals. We are now a nation of selflessness, handouts & the collective.

I will make it my goal to one day be "off the grid" & away from your repressive state-of-mind(s). You're building a hell, where the slaves are kings & the individuals are slaves. You've turned criminals into victims & victims into criminals. This is the world you have wanted for a long time. I no longer seek to be a part of it. Much like my brother (dearest friend & fellow anarchist), Brett, I look forward to the days where I pursue only my happiness & help only those I wish to help. While you & the slaves take from everyone, give nothing in return & then wonder why everything is collapsing around you, I will be enjoying that in which I have produced, that in which I have labored for & dare anyone to try & take what is rightfully mine.

This all may sound heated, but rest assured, the majority of it is being written with a smirk. And, when I say (you), this is a general statement (as I'm sure most of you picked up on).

The questions I pose to anyone saying the voters of this nation do not wish to control others are: Why are you voting? What do you hope to gain from voting? Both questions will quickly explain one's intention(s). In knowing what I'm trying to achieve from asking said question, they may try & twist it around & make it a convoluted mess, but there's no escaping the real reasons why one follows the democratic process. They're fine with imposing their moral codes on the populous.

This, to me, is no different than the petty thief who takes from me. I was recently given the typical response of "I disagree with the quote because it's not stealing since everyone still benefits in at least some ways from the government." This has to be one of the stupidest answers I've been given & usually, it's quite typical out of a statist. My response: What you're saying is, that if a thief steals from me, uses the money towards something I may in the future use it's not considered theft?

Also, I was recently told by an Ohioan for Obama: "Your parents took care of you when you were a helpless child." What the fuck?! So, because my parents made a decision, took responsibility for their actions & expected no one else to do it for them, that somehow negates my point that people should depend only on themselves & those willing to help them in a time of need? This person is clearly a fucking moron, too & again, sadly, this is a common situation that's brought up, time & time again. I really don't think these idiots think about what it is they're actually spewing forth. They can never answer my questions as to why volunteerism is bad & why the collective good & stealing from their neighbor isn't.

These fucksticks are tools, used by the government, spewing forth their rhetoric & idly sitting by thinking they're patriots & heroes. Where I come from heroes don't ask others to steal for them. At least the common thief does his crime himself. At least the hooker on the corner is bartering with that in which is rightfully hers. I doubt we'll ever get through to the collective, because they view individualism as some sort of disease.

I am looking forward to sitting on my slice of earth & indulging in the fruits of my labor. I enjoy knowing that those close to me don't expect anything from me & vice versa. As I mentioned the other night over dinner with a dear friend of mine, this is why friendships & relationships fail miserably. People are under the impression they're always owed something. Where as he & I are friends & spend quality time with one another because we want to, we expect nothing in return & it's completely due to our morals & convictions that we're friends. The sheep will always follow, that's how it's always been & how it will always be. Luckily we've managed to scrape the psyche clean, not fall victim to the lies that have been indoctrinated in us & realize that no one owns us & that the chains that bind most men should be eradicated. But, much like Brett, I am not concerned with breaking the chains for my fellow man. He has the same opportunities as I do to see what a crock of shit this whole system is & if he decides to follow along, then he too is my mortal enemy.

[youtube]7d3iVaGfEsg[/youtube]

[Phish]

my reaction to this thread:

[Polaris]

Even though limited government is not anarchism, I am tired of Americans associating it with right wing ideology. They are so quick to equate the two, but not so quick to highlight the disadvantages of their strong central government system....war crimes no democracy should ever be a part of and corruption not even the Russians want to deal with....

America needs to emulate the European Union, a relatively weak central government with stronger secondary governments (the member nations). I believe America would be much better off if the states handled more of their basic needs instead of relying on a corrupt middleman. We no longer live in a bipolar world where large countries with strong yet ultimately inefficient central governments are advantageous.

This is where I believe Romney to be the most right (I don't actually tend to pay attention to him....only other thing I took real notice from him was his rationale to get Americans jobs and then they can pay into the tax system....only way for it to work IMO), but then again only because he actually advocated a means of inserting socialism effectively within the framework of the American political structure I had been supporting.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

...
The very definition of theft is to take from someone without their consent & to do with that in which has been stolen as the thief (in this case government) sees fit. As the first video stated, I never signed this social contract allowing the fruits of my labors to be sold against my will. That in which I make is my property & those that take my property without my consent are committing theft.

The problem with this thinking is that you never owned any property in an absolute sense in the first place. The only places you can do that anymore is Antarctica, Mars, moons, and other completely uninhabited places. You were only allowed to "own" property under certain conditions. The supposed distinction between government and businesses/property owners is artificial. Government in a sense is the ultimate property owner and in so long as you are on the government's property, you have to abide by the government's rules.

From my perspective, anarchy and ownership of property are mutually exclusive. From ownership of property necessarily results in a government of some sort. The whole system under anarcho-capitalism of businesses providing defense and justice is simply government of another sort (which means the term "anarcho-capitalism" is a misnomer).

[The Grand Nudger]

Businesses providing defense and justice? You mean like contractors overseas and for-profit pens round here? Already there, and I didn't realize that there were folks longing for such a situation....

[Something completely different]

Therefore, as Nietzsche said: "There are no facts, only interpretations."

"No man’s life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session." -Mark Twain (1866 )

"Go ahead and missuse my quotes to dishonestly underline your political views!"

Hubugugugu Bombubububu Bababababubububu; King of Mars (2445)

A lot of you are extrapolating on a pragmatic stance, where as I am coming from a philosophical point of view. The very definition of theft is to take from someone without their consent & to do with that in which has been stolen as the thief (in this case government) sees fit. As the first video stated, I never signed this social contract allowing the fruits of my labors to be sold against my will. That in which I make is my property & those that take my property without my consent are committing theft. Now, we, as a society like to dress it up & make it something different when it's the government/state, but that does not lend any credence to the argument that I somehow reap benefits from the money that's stolen from me. It doesn't hold water & can easily be negated by a plethora of scenarios, which I will elaborate on more at a later time.

The goverment steals from me? The taxes I pay guarantee me a social security siystem wich is designed as a net, in case i drop out of work, it will catch me up and help me make a new start.
It also (in my case) provides health insurance.
It provides an executive to inforce the laws of the nation and to protect me
It provides a pention for people who`s private pention funds might have gone lost due to crime or financial speculation.
It provides a army to protect my borders.

What do your policies provide? Nothing exept for the recent financial crisis and the current economic meltdown.

Integrity & sincerity are ancient tomes in the dust bins of history. The oppressive nature that is this country sickens me. Everyone is fighting for some common good, yet the common good is only for those whom are weak, incompetent & lazy.

weak, incompetent and lazy?

And I guess your the kind of person who screams "NAZI!" when someone would call all anarchists and\or liberterians selfish, cold, opportunist and irresponsible.

The down-trodden have been enthroned & the virtuous dethroned.

Back that up with facts!

We reward failure & chastise those who do well.

Back that up with facts! .......and who is "we"?

We have made it a character flaw to be wealthy & to be successful.

Back that up with facts! .....and who is "we"?

We have substituted lending a hand to duty.

Back that up with facts! .....and who is "we"?

Somewhere along the way, we became weak.

Back that up with facts! .....and who is "we"?

We became a nation riddled with helpless leaches & psychic vampires.

Back that up with facts! .....and who is "we"?

We are no longer a nation of strong, hard working, individuals.

Back that up with facts! .....and who is "we"?

We are now a nation of selflessness, handouts & the collective.

Back that up with facts! .....and who is "we"?

I will make it my goal to one day be "off the grid" & away from your repressive state-of-mind(s).

My repressive state of mind?! Who the fuck do you think you are to make such kind of a judgement about me!
I am almoust certain that the same statement is repeated by religious celots all over this planet.
I choose to support and invest into my goverment and the services it provides not because I dont work, are lazy or dont want to be what ever the fuck you think "free" is. But because it is a institution wich has proven in the past to be efficent in the handling of crisises and in the support of those in need.
Would I intrust someone like you or your commrades with such tasks? What guarantees do I have that you or your commrades wont simply let me die when I need cancer operation and cant affoard that?

You're building a hell, where the slaves are kings & the individuals are slaves. You've turned criminals into victims & victims into criminals. This is the world you have wanted for a long time. I no longer seek to be a part of it. Much like my brother (dearest friend & fellow anarchist), Brett, I look forward to the days where I pursue only my happiness & help only those I wish to help. While you & the slaves take from everyone, give nothing in return & then wonder why everything is collapsing around you, I will be enjoying that in which I have produced, that in which I have labored for & dare anyone to try & take what is rightfully mine.

Enought! I`m not going to get into this further.
Are you realy here to debate!
Do you know what debating means!!!!!
You are just posting something, which is like a campain speech - only without any, not eaven a single fact to back any of your pathetic rants up!
I have already met enought conspiracy freaks and other who called it "debating" when they repeatedly muttered delusional phrases like:
"Your living in a dream world and must wake up."
"You are being lied to all the time by everyone."
"Once you acknowlege the truth you will agree."

Political debate, means presenting FACTS, these are then evaluated, the problems are analysed and through rational process the blueprints for solutions are created and proposed, then through a democratic process chosen for execution.

This all may sound heated, but rest assured, the majority of it is being written with a smirk. And, when I say (you), this is a general statement (as I'm sure most of you picked up on).

You should have writen this at the beginning of your brainfart.
Then people can avoid this factless
"I KNOW HOW THE WORLD WORKS! YOU ARE WRONG! AND I CAN LEAD THE WORLD!"
rant.

The questions I pose to anyone saying the voters of this nation do not wish to control others are: Why are you voting? What do you hope to gain from voting? Both questions will quickly explain one's intention(s). In knowing what I'm trying to achieve from asking said question, they may try & twist it around & make it a convoluted mess, but there's no escaping the real reasons why one follows the democratic process.

I vote because change of leadership is the only legitemate way of assuring "progress" within a sociaty.
Ideologies which proclaim to bring "progress" will mostly be historcist, meaning; seeing sociaty as a path with a beginning and a desteny as a perfect status.
I reject the idea of a sociaty with "perfect" status, since it is totalitarian, and rather vote for changeing or not changing the way current problems are solved. Ideologies my fight "civil war" during election and propose their programmes on how to solve current problems, but they should not stand above the guaranteed "change of leadership" wich provides the tools nececrey to end a ideologies grip to constant power.
Your antidemocracy, historicist views belong into the same trashbin together with marxism, fashism, theocratic theories on rule, Plato and Robes Pieres "inforcement into freedom".

They're fine with imposing their moral codes on the populous.

We, They. These words?!
We as if sociaty was one monolythic block missing any kind of individual.

They! I can only say that I cant stand people who use this term without being specific on whom they mean!
with this use of rethoric you crash your ideological train into the trashbin of conspiracy theories yourself!

This, to me, is no different than the petty thief who takes from me. I was recently given the typical response of "I disagree with the quote because it's not stealing since everyone still benefits in at least some ways from the government." This has to be one of the stupidest answers I've been given & usually, it's quite typical out of a statist. My response: What you're saying is, that if a thief steals from me, uses the money towards something I may in the future use it's not considered theft?

Also, I was recently told by an Ohioan for Obama: "Your parents took care of you when you were a helpless child." What the fuck?! So, because my parents made a decision, took responsibility for their actions & expected no one else to do it for them, that somehow negates my point that people should depend only on themselves & those willing to help them in a time of need? This person is clearly a fucking moron, too & again, sadly, this is a common situation that's brought up, time & time again. I really don't think these idiots think about what it is they're actually spewing forth. They can never answer my questions as to why volunteerism is bad & why the collective good & stealing from their neighbor isn't.

These fucksticks are tools, used by the government, spewing forth their rhetoric & idly sitting by thinking they're patriots & heroes. Where I come from heroes don't ask others to steal for them. At least the common thief does his crime himself. At least the hooker on the corner is bartering with that in which is rightfully hers. I doubt we'll ever get through to the collective, because they view individualism as some sort of disease.

I am looking forward to sitting on my slice of earth & indulging in the fruits of my labor. I enjoy knowing that those close to me don't expect anything from me & vice versa. As I mentioned the other night over dinner with a dear friend of mine, this is why friendships & relationships fail miserably. People are under the impression they're always owed something. Where as he & I are friends & spend quality time with one another because we want to, we expect nothing in return & it's completely due to our morals & convictions that we're friends. The sheep will always follow, that's how it's always been & how it will always be. Luckily we've managed to scrape the psyche clean, not fall victim to the lies that have been indoctrinated in us & realize that no one owns us & that the chains that bind most men should be eradicated. But, much like Brett, I am not concerned with breaking the chains for my fellow man. He has the same opportunities as I do to see what a crock of shit this whole system is & if he decides to follow along, then he too is my mortal enemy.

I have ended ripping this appart one by one!
You dont present one single fact on how to solve current issues!
What you write can be summerised as a desperate attempt to gain peoples support through convincing them to repeat talking points wich cant be backed up by facts.

If you cant present facts, what is the point of debating your "theories on sociaty".
One may enter a parlament with such talking points as a member of a political party - but you reject democracy. Therefor I will in futur simply give you the same treatment which I would give to marxists, theocrats and fashists.

[jonb]

I usually meticulously read through all the posts on a thread before I post on it, but in this case I cannot be bothered.
As an Absurdist, and a situationist, and what our Turkish friend would describe as a mere hedonist, I have to say politics us just an excuse not to do something. I did not need a revolution, or to force onto people a way of thinking that would stop them from organising themselves in this or that way. No I just chose to live the way I wanted, sure this or that might impose itself on me, but it is surprising how much can be circumvented.
When I was a teenager there were what we called 'Monkhams avenue Marxists' the rich kids who thought when the revolution comes we can all have yellow sports cars.
What do I need a revolution for? What would your revolution give me? I have all the liberty I wanted, and I did that by just living it. You could have the same, but you don't want to tip your toes in the water so you invent the excuse of needing a revolution.

[Darth]

Hey, an anarcho-capitalist, cool beans.

What do your policies provide? Nothing exept for the recent financial crisis and the current economic meltdown.

Really? I think that what deregulation there was, was a sham. There are regulations that restrict what business/industry X can do, there are regulations that give business/industry X benefits, and there are regulations that restrict what business/industry Y can do, which has benefits for business/industry X.

Which type of regulations were cut?

And I think the point of his rant is not that 'he could rule the world', rather, it is that no-one should.

[festive1]

And I think the point of his rant is not that 'he could rule the world', rather, it is that no-one should.

That's not how his "perfect world" scenario would play out. Corporations would rule the world. After living in Wal*Martville, I don't think it would be a very nice way to run things.