Posts: 8781
Threads: 26
Joined: March 15, 2010
Reputation:
29
RE: An argument that disproves God possibly existing?
October 26, 2012 at 11:08 pm
You all talk like man is above God and that man has ever right to define Him. God is praise worth for many reasons, but this simple one should mean something to all, He allowed you this day, that's something to praise Him for, He could have left you in bed very, very dead. I think you two need to completely rethink who God is, maybe from the point that you are no more than a grasshopper compared to Him, yet He loves you. So God does not have to earn your praise, He does want it but does not need it, everyone owes Him praise.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
Posts: 4196
Threads: 60
Joined: September 8, 2011
Reputation:
30
RE: An argument that disproves God possibly existing?
October 26, 2012 at 11:22 pm
(October 26, 2012 at 11:08 pm)Godschild Wrote: You all talk like man is above God and that man has ever right to define Him.
And your point would be?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
Posts: 8214
Threads: 394
Joined: November 2, 2011
Reputation:
44
RE: An argument that disproves God possibly existing?
October 26, 2012 at 11:26 pm
(October 26, 2012 at 11:08 pm)Godschild Wrote: You all talk like man is above God and that man has ever right to define Him. God is praise worth for many reasons, but this simple one should mean something to all, He allowed you this day, that's something to praise Him for, He could have left you in bed very, very dead. I think you two need to completely rethink who God is, maybe from the point that you are no more than a grasshopper compared to Him, yet He loves you. So God does not have to earn your praise, He does want it but does not need it, everyone owes Him praise.
Here is the issue. God eternally is loving, good, etc.
God being eternal, didn't have to struggle to develop his character. It's character has always been.
You've been use to lower yourself to "God", and believing he is more praiseworthy and exalted, but he didn't earn his character, he didn't earn his praise.
His love may very well be infinite, his essence may very well be infinite, but at the end, it's unearned.
It isn't developed. It's there.
As great as he maybe, unearned greatness is less great then earned greatness.
So from this perspective, many humans are "greater" yes then the concept of "God".
This the problem, he is defined in a way that seeks to make him the greatest and most praiseworthy, but when we look at from the perspective he didn't earn his character, despite being defined to be infinite, it's less great then finite beings.
You can look at from perspective he has infinitely more love then we do, he has infinitely more benevolent will, but at the end, being unearned attributes, but eternal attributes, they are of less value and praise, then finite praise that is earned.
Posts: 4196
Threads: 60
Joined: September 8, 2011
Reputation:
30
RE: An argument that disproves God possibly existing?
October 26, 2012 at 11:29 pm
(October 26, 2012 at 2:18 pm)Darkstar Wrote: Strangely, that would paradoxically make him incapable of evil, making something god cannot do. If god is capable of evil, then he is not perfect...
I would have to disagree with you here. Perfection would not rule out evil. Perfectly 'good' might, but that would be a different discussion.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
Posts: 23918
Threads: 300
Joined: June 25, 2011
Reputation:
151
RE: An argument that disproves God possibly existing?
October 26, 2012 at 11:32 pm
(October 26, 2012 at 11:08 pm)Godschild Wrote: You all talk like man is above God and that man has ever right to define Him. God is praise worth for many reasons, but this simple one should mean something to all, He allowed you this day, that's something to praise Him for, He could have left you in bed very, very dead.
On the other hand if people had not invented God in the first place you would not have Him to feel grateful toward and small beside. So perhaps you should praise men even more for coming up with the idea of God which you so cherish?
Posts: 4196
Threads: 60
Joined: September 8, 2011
Reputation:
30
RE: An argument that disproves God possibly existing?
October 26, 2012 at 11:33 pm
@apophenia
Your overly large signature has pushed the 'Kudo' button and 'Reply' button off my screen in Chrome and FireFox. No scroll either.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
Posts: 6946
Threads: 26
Joined: April 28, 2012
Reputation:
83
RE: An argument that disproves God possibly existing?
October 26, 2012 at 11:50 pm
(October 26, 2012 at 11:08 pm)Godschild Wrote: You all talk like man is above God and that man has ever right to define Him. God is praise worth for many reasons, but this simple one should mean something to all, He allowed you this day, that's something to praise Him for, He could have left you in bed very, very dead. I think you two need to completely rethink who God is, maybe from the point that you are no more than a grasshopper compared to Him, yet He loves you. So God does not have to earn your praise, He does want it but does not need it, everyone owes Him praise.
Moosecock!!!
Why would an infinite being desire praise?
Posts: 3117
Threads: 16
Joined: September 17, 2012
Reputation:
35
RE: An argument that disproves God possibly existing?
October 26, 2012 at 11:54 pm
(October 26, 2012 at 11:50 pm)cato123 Wrote: Moosecock!!!
Why would an infinite being desire praise?
Infinite narcissism.
Posts: 29718
Threads: 116
Joined: February 22, 2011
Reputation:
159
RE: An argument that disproves God possibly existing?
October 27, 2012 at 12:02 am
(This post was last modified: October 27, 2012 at 12:32 am by Angrboda.)
I don't feel like wading through this entire thread, so I'm just going to put something out here and if it's useful, so be it.
One of the first essays in The Impossibility of God argues that God cannot be virtuous, under ordinary conceptions of virtue. Yet ordinary conceptions of God require him to be virtuous. Ergo, God qua God cannot exist.
I'd have to get up out of my comfy chair, but I'll give one example in lieu of such measures as that. Take courage. To be courageous is certainly a virtue, particularly in the face of evil. But if we accept that God is omnipotent, he cannot fail in such contests. How much courage does it take to approach a task which you cannot fail to accomplish? None, right? It doesn't take any courage. Courage implies the risk of failure, and since there is no risk for God, he cannot be (classically) courageous. Can a god be God without this and other virtues which require limited capacity and risk? The author says no, and I tend to agree that fully virtuous, fully omnipotent, and fully omniscient are incompatible qualities under this argument. Perhaps having done so without the possibility of failure is your notion of unearned risk. However, under this analysis, it isn't the property of being meritorious which robs God of its fruits, but rather that virtue does not blossom without the possibility of failure or risk. Since God cannot fail, the flowers of virtue simply possess no soil within Him in which to take root. It's not that meritorious conduct is superior to non-meritorious conduct so much as it is meritorious because it requires virtue, and virtue requires risk, and risk is something of which God and other perfect beings cannot avail themselves.
(October 26, 2012 at 11:33 pm)IATIA Wrote: @apophenia
Your overly large signature has pushed the 'Kudo' button and 'Reply' button off my screen in Chrome and FireFox. No scroll either.
You seem to imply that this was unintentional. (For what it's worth, I use firefox and have no such issue; however if you feel it a likely recurrent problem, I suggest you start a thread to take it up with Tibbs, et al.) As noted elsewhere, this sig is solely for the Halloween season and may see changes at the beginning of November. Did it perchance also push the PM button off your screen as well? I have one hell of a sig if it can do that. Maybe I'll keep her.
ETA: Prior to such events, other standard elements of AFO's presentation start getting chopped as well when the width of the browser is reduced to those minimums (far right profile information, e.g.). I also note that in palemoon (a build of firefox), the problem is readily cured by adjusting the zoom level under View. Assessment? Your equipment sucks and you don't know how to use the standard features of a modern browser to compensate. Alas, I can't confirm this conjecture as I know of no one else with such an awesome signature.
Posts: 4196
Threads: 60
Joined: September 8, 2011
Reputation:
30
RE: An argument that disproves God possibly existing?
October 27, 2012 at 12:34 am
ScreenShot
It is your signature, your post and your prerogative, but it does make it difficult to read and respond to your posts. I had not really noticed until I attempted to kudo you a few posts earlier.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
|
![[Image: extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/zf86M5L7/extraordinarywoo-sig.jpg)
