Christian Nation

[chi pan]

Since AD is the initialism for "Anno Domini" and means "In the year of our lord", somehow I think that your position on this would be exactly the same if they had used it. Please feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

well said. i recant my statements presenting this line as evidence for a Christian nation. my other evidence still stands however.

[chi pan]

i would also like to present a bit of information of Thomas Paine, the most secular of all the founding fathers. though he was a deist and often attacked Christianity in his book Age of Reason, he did have an interesting speech to a university in Paris concerning their curriculum.

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It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of Divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles. He can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.

When we examine an extraordinary piece of machinery, an astonishing pile of architecture, a well executed statue or a highly finished painting where life and action are imitated, and habit only prevents our mistaking a surface of light and shade for cubical solidity, our ideas are naturally led to think of the extensive genius and talents of the artist. When we study the elements of geometry, we think of Euclid. When we speak of gravitation, we think of Newton. How then is it, that when we study the works of God in the creation, we stop short, and do not think of God? It is from the error of the schools in having taught those subjects as accomplishments only, and thereby separated the study of them form the Being who is the author of them. . . .

The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of the creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of His existence. They labor with studied ingenuity to ascribe everything they behold to innate properties of matter; and jump over all the rest, by saying that matter is eternal.

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Delivered in Paris on January 16, 1797, in a Discourse to the Society of Theophilanthropists

[Rev. Rye]

And this speech has what to do with Christianity? Yes, he did attack atheism, and did talk about God a great deal in the speech, but, especially given that you yourself admit that Paine was a deist, you can't just say that "you can argue the meaning of the word but not the intent of the writer," like you did when talking about "In God We Trust."

And for the record, here's Theodore Roosevelt's take on putting "In God We Trust" on money:
“When the question of the new coinage came up we looked into the law and found there was no warrant therein for putting ‘In God We Trust’ on the coins. As the custom, although without legal warrant, had grown up, however, I might have felt at liberty to keep the inscription had I approved of its being on the coinage. But as I did not approve of it I did not direct that it should again be put on . . . . ”

“My own feeling in the matter is due to my very firm conviction that to put such a motto on coins, or to use it in any kindred manner, not only does no good, but does positive harm, and is in effect irreverence, which comes dangerously close to sacrilege. A beautiful and solemn sentence such as the one in question should be treated and uttered only with that fine reverence which necessarily implies a certain exaltation of spirit.”

“Any use which tends to cheapen it, and, above all, any use which tends to secure its being treated in a spirit of levity, is from every standpoint profoundly to be regretted . . . .“

[chi pan]

The point is that Thomas Paine argued for having God as the creator (though not specifically any god) should be taught in schools. This is contrary to the 1962 court case concerning separation of church and state in public schools. The founding fathers never intended the notion of God to be removed completely from schools.

[Darkstar]

The point is that Thomas Paine argued for having God as the creator (though not specifically any god) should be taught in schools. This is contrary to the 1962 court case concerning separation of church and state in public schools. The founding fathers never intended the notion of God to be removed completely from schools.

So wait, is this a debate about the prescence of Christianity in America shortly after the founding, or about whether America is a Christian nation? Even if America was once one (if), the fact that the supreme court case overturned it should indicate that it is not one now.

[Utracia]

Strict constitutionalists seem to only be that when it suits their interests, no different for those who are trying to push Christianity into the public sphere.

[chi pan]

The point is that Thomas Paine argued for having God as the creator (though not specifically any god) should be taught in schools. This is contrary to the 1962 court case concerning separation of church and state in public schools. The founding fathers never intended the notion of God to be removed completely from schools.

So wait, is this a debate about the prescence of Christianity in America shortly after the founding, or about whether America is a Christian nation? Even if America was once one (if), the fact that the supreme court case overturned it should indicate that it is not one now.

The fact that the Supreme Court rules in favor of the separation of church and state by the founding fathers intentions based on fallacies proves the rulings are bogus.

[IATIA]

The fact that the Supreme Court rules in favor of the separation of church and state by the founding fathers intentions based on fallacies proves the rulings are bogus.

I may get back to you on this, but it is obviously a waste of time as you are too deluded and brainwashed to consider that anyone would or should defy your tyrannical, immoral, murdering, sadistic, masochistic sky-daddy.

(Did I cover it all?)

[JohnDG]

Ok when the United States largest exports are weapons and pornography the whole notion that this nation is christian goes out the window.

[IATIA]

Just because our technology is better than god's is no reason to to suggest this is not a christian nation.