Backwards nation

[Aractus]

How big a factor do you think the continuing Christian backwardness is on the pace at which America is losing the scientific edge as it goes into relative economic/power decline?

I'd be much more worried about political influences corrupting science, than I would religion as a whole. It's the nations which have a Christian heritage which have traditionally contributed the most in science in our age. What has China, or North Korea contributed, for instance? Australia has a comparable population to North Korea, and we have a Christian heritage. North Korea is the most Atheist place in the world. Which of us has contributed more to science? Duh.

[Aroura]

How big a factor do you think the continuing Christian backwardness is on the pace at which America is losing the scientific edge as it goes into relative economic/power decline?

I'd be much more worried about political influences corrupting science, than I would religion as a whole. It's the nations which have a Christian heritage which have traditionally contributed the most in science in our age. What has China, or North Korea contributed, for instance? Australia has a comparable population to North Korea, and we have a Christian heritage. North Korea is the most Atheist place in the world. Which of us has contributed more to science? Duh.

Yeah, the invention of the abacus, gunpowder, the compass, PRINTING, those don't count at all, China!! And the scientific revolution that the islamic countries underwent during the middle ages happened when they were the LEAST hardcore about their religion. They made major advancements in mathmatics (the number 0!!!!!), astronomy (note that most stars have ARABIC Names), medicine, and even physics. How dare they actually NOT be a Christian nation yet contribute greatly to scientific knowledge. Only the Christian west can do that, right?

North Koreans believe their "supreme leader" is basically a living god. Just FYI, that isn't atheism. The west has a huge misunderstanding of North Koreans (applying their own "no invisible sky daddy, no true religion" ideals to them), and inaccurately label them irreligious. They have pictures of the "Dear Leader" in their homes, they face the picture and bow and thank the "supreme leader" many times per day, they must thank him for everything from their food to their own successes (hmmm, that sounds familiar). Arguably, they are the most religious country in the world, and the most suppressed. Perhaps you should watch some documentaries and educate yourself on North Korea. The Supreme Leader IS a god to them.



Please watch this video. Watch all the blind people, who when western doctors operate on them and they regains their sight, their first act is to go to the pictures of the great general and thank HIM for restoring their sight!! That is NOT atheism.





Don't even question the supreme leader or he will punish you! Sounds a lot like "god" to me.

[downbeatplumb]

How big a factor do you think the continuing Christian backwardness is on the pace at which America is losing the scientific edge as it goes into relative economic/power decline?

I'd be much more worried about political influences corrupting science, than I would religion as a whole. It's the nations which have a Christian heritage which have traditionally contributed the most in science in our age. What has China, or North Korea contributed, for instance? Australia has a comparable population to North Korea, and we have a Christian heritage. North Korea is the most Atheist place in the world. Which of us has contributed more to science? Duh.

Scientific advances come despite religion not because of it.

Religion has a looonnnng history of trying to retard scientific advances.

Copernicus- replaced the earth centered view of the universe and was persecuted.
Galileo Galilei- Expanded on Copernicus and was persecuted and his books banned.
Conrad Gessner- whose work is now seen as the fore runner of modern zoology was banned.
Charles Darwin-nuff said.
The Catholic church tried to suppress the meaning of hieroglyphs because they contradicted accepted biblical dates.
One Catholic priest destroyed almost all the writings of the Maya.
The catholic church systematically rounded up and destroyed all other versions of christianity with brutal suppression and book burning.
More recently you have "intelligent design" trying to be smuggled into schools in the guise of science.
You have the restrictions on stem cell research.
You have the constant annoying mantra of "well what if" the insert some way out shit that you have to refute Waldorf and Statler stylee (the older members will know what I mean).

The whole religion thing gives an anti-science vibe, by purporting to be the ultimate answer.
If the answer is always Goddidit why look for deeper answers.

[John V]

You know, John, you seem a rung or two higher on the ladder than the normal run-of-the-mill fundie we get around here. Maybe you have an idea about a question that I can never get an answer to from the others.

Why the obsession about creationism?

First - what obsession? I rarely post on it. The largest Christian church rejects it. Sure, out of a couple billion people you'll get some who focus on it, but overall it's a peripheral issue.

Second - back at you. Why the atheist obsession (if it is that) in creationism? We get lots of unsupported assertions that evolution and age of the universe are vital for all science, but as we've seen, no one can back that up with numbers. On another board an atheist actually said, "If the monkey's not your uncle, the plane doesn't fly." Seems ludicrous to me. Do you think it's impossible for someone to learn aerodynamics if they're a YEC?

The reports of what jesus said, which is all we have, indicate that he spent no time at all worrying about the creation of the world

Considering his audience, I doubt there was any reason for him to worry about it. Note though that he did refer to A&E as historical people and the flood as a historical event.

but he spent lots of time driving "demons" out of sick people. Why isn't the insistence on adding "Demon Driving Out" to medical school courses rather than worrying about stuff that jesus didn't care about?

You make a common mistake. He doesn't drive demons out of sick people, he drives them out of demon-possessed people. He healed the diseases of the sick people. The gospels present sick and demon-possessed as two different things numerous times. They do not say that sicknesses are caused by demons. One example:

Mark 1
32 At evening, when the sun had set, they brought to Him all who were sick and those who were demon-possessed. 33 And the whole city was gathered together at the door. 34 Then He healed many who were sick with various diseases, and cast out many demons

---

Copernicus wasn't persecuted. When the church reviewed his work on heliocentrism, it merely asked that all or parts of nine sentences be altered or removed.

Galileo had a long career before the church put him under house arrest at the age of 70. This was prompted by a dialogue he published which added little or nothing to heliocentrism and was seen by many as being open ridicule of the pope.

---

Appearently not:
Minimalist
Donator

Religious Views: none

Although swearing and/or insulting people a lot isn't being NICE, I think when they say "act like real cunts", they mean religious people who use religion to justify racism, child brides, war, murder, and bigotry of all stripes.

"Bigotry of all stripes" includes bigotry against the religious.

[Aroura]

First - what obsession? I rarely post on it. The largest Christian church rejects it. Sure, out of a couple billion people you'll get some who focus on it, but overall it's a peripheral issue.

Second - back at you. Why the atheist obsession (if it is that) in creationism? We get lots of unsupported assertions that evolution and age of the universe are vital for all science, but as we've seen, no one can back that up with numbers. On another board an atheist actually said, "If the monkey's not your uncle, the plane doesn't fly." Seems ludicrous to me. Do you think it's impossible for someone to learn aerodynamics if they're a YEC?

It's not a "peripheral issue", in 31 states creationists are trying to pass laws to get it taught in schools alongside evolution as an "alternate theory". And some have already managed to get those laws passed!
Tenesee law passed to teach creationism in public schools
That is be teaching religion in public schools.

Anyway, how have the assertions been unsupported? Without an understanding of evolution, most modern day vaccines could not have been developed. Without an understanding of physics, radioactive isotopes and HOW THINGS AGE, your computer could not exist. Or your watch, your flat screen TV, etc. Creationists don't just reject evolution, and simplifying it that much is disingenuous. They reject the scientific method entirely, and ANY findings that threaten their worldview.

The importance of evolution and physics come not only in their direct application (which ARE numerous, whether you want to accept it or not), but in the act that by rejecting 2 or more large fields of science and painting said scientists as liars or frauds, they are doing all scientists a huge disservice.

[John V]

46% of Americans believe in Creationism!

Belief does not equal obsession. Do you consider all who accept evolution to be obsessed with it?

It's not a "peripheral issue", in 31 states creationists are trying to pass laws to get it taught in schools alongside evolution as an "alternate theory". And some have already managed to get those laws passed!
Tenesee law passed to teach creationism in public schools
That is be teaching religion in public schools.

This law does not allow creationism to be taught alongside evolution. If that's tried under the law, the law will likely be challenged in court and struck down, as others have been. Until creationists are actually successful in getting it taught in public schools, it's pretty tought to blame them for American decline.

Anyway, how have the assertions been unsupported?

Like this:

Without an understanding of evolution, most modern day vaccines could not have been developed. Without an understanding of physics, radioactive isotopes and HOW THINGS AGE, your computer could not exist. Or your watch, your flat screen TV, etc.

See? Assertions without support.

[Minimalist]

It takes religion to make people act like real cunts.

Appearently not:
Minimalist
Donator

Religious Views: none

Get used to it, asshole.

[Something completely different]

@ John V

It is very well a obsecion if you try to inforce this what you call "belief" onto people through means of education, although there is proof that that "belief" is bullshit!

The fact that you are proposing that "creationism" should be tought in classrooms - is proof of americas decline.

Now tell me, amongst those 46 percent of the american population who deny evolution: Hwo many are doctors, genetesists, biologists, engeneers, physicists ?
How many of these are actualy efficiant and productive members of sociaty? How many of these tolerate other views?

Aurora is not making assertions she probably read the wiki entries on these technological products to understand how they work because she isn`t scared of knowlege, that might disrupt and rearange how she sees the world.
Only because you are to stupid, lazy or scared to look those things up, that doesn`t mean others are making "assretions"

[Minimalist]

First - what obsession? I rarely post on it. The largest Christian church rejects it. Sure, out of a couple billion people you'll get some who focus on it, but overall it's a peripheral issue.

Second - back at you. Why the atheist obsession (if it is that) in creationism? We get lots of unsupported assertions that evolution and age of the universe are vital for all science, but as we've seen, no one can back that up with numbers. On another board an atheist actually said, "If the monkey's not your uncle, the plane doesn't fly." Seems ludicrous to me. Do you think it's impossible for someone to learn aerodynamics if they're a YEC?

Perhaps I was wrong. Maybe you aren't a rung or two higher than the rest.

[pocaracas]

Without an understanding of evolution, most modern day vaccines could not have been developed. Without an understanding of physics, radioactive isotopes and HOW THINGS AGE, your computer could not exist. Or your watch, your flat screen TV, etc.

See? Assertions without support.

Without support? Maybe they don't have explicit support on that post, but they are true.

Let's see....

A vaccine is a biological preparation that improves immunity to a particular disease. A vaccine typically contains an agent that resembles a disease-causing microorganism, and is often made from weakened or killed forms of the microbe, its toxins or one of its surface proteins. The agent stimulates the body's immune system to recognize the agent as foreign, destroy it, and "remember" it, so that the immune system can more easily recognize and destroy any of these microorganisms that it later encounters.
[...]
The live Mycobacterium tuberculosis vaccine developed by Calmette and Guérin is not made of a contagious strain, but contains a virulently modified strain called "BCG" used to elicit an immune response to the vaccine.

Evolution be here!

NEXT!

computers require microprocessors, right?

ICs were made possible by experimental discoveries showing that semiconductor devices could perform the functions of vacuum tubes and by mid-20th-century technology advancements in semiconductor device fabrication.

Now, semiconductors... what are those things?!

A semiconductor has electrical conductivity intermediate to that of a conductor and an insulator. Semiconductors differ from metals in their characteristic property of decreasing electrical resistivity with increasing temperature.[1] Semiconductor materials are useful because their behavior can be manipulated by the addition of impurities, known as doping. The comprehensive theory of semiconductors relies on the principles of quantum physics to explain the motions of electrons through a lattice of atoms.

Physics be here!

NEXT!

watches....

Compared to electronic movements, mechanical watches are less accurate, often with errors of seconds per day, and they are sensitive to position, temperature[9] and magnetism.[10] They are also costly to produce, require regular maintenance and adjustment, and are more prone to failure. Nevertheless, the craftsmanship of mechanical watches still attracts interest from part of the watch-buying public. Skeleton watches are designed to leave the mechanism visible for aesthetic purposes.

Mechanical movements use an escapement mechanism to control and limit the unwinding and winding parts of a spring, converting what would otherwise be a simple unwinding into a controlled and periodic energy release. Mechanical movements also use a balance wheel together with the balance spring (also known as a hairspring) to control motion of the gear system of the watch in a manner analogous to the pendulum of a pendulum clock.

Physics be here!


NEXT!

Flat screen TVs, usually LCDs:

A liquid crystal display (LCD) is a flat panel display, electronic visual display, or video display that uses the light modulating properties of liquid crystals. Liquid crystals do not emit light directly.

What are these "Liquid crystals"??

Liquid crystals (LCs) are a state of matter that have properties between those of a conventional liquid and those of a solid crystal.[1] For instance, an LC may flow like a liquid, but its molecules may be oriented in a crystal-like way. There are many different types of LC phases, which can be distinguished by their different optical properties (such as birefringence).

Physics and Chemistry be here!


Bottom line, if you're ignorant of something in the real world, try not to show it too much.