Give all your money to the poor, and follow me.

[Cinjin]

waterfront property. That must be a picture of the high-end shanties.

[JohnDG]

My friends pastor insulted this teaching by Jesus by saying, if you did it you would just be stupid. Then he said Jesus only meant that you should give to the poor not give everything. I was the only person who thought that statement was insulting to Jesus even though I don't believe but what do I know.

[Drich]

[quote='Drich' pid='369930' dateline='1354683432']

I have, and was given back 100x's more than what I had to begin with.

I think you have missed the point, Jesus never said anything about you getting back more.

Actually He does in the Parable of the talents in Mt. 25.
By giving away everything I placed my self in need for God to provide everything. Meaning it made me a slave/servent of the Almighty God. As a servent I was given a responsiablity, and when I proved my self faithful, I was given more, and more till now I am well beyond anything I could have done on my pervious path.

He multiple times commands his followers to live a life of poverty and spiritual contemplation. You aren't supposed to pursue wealth at all. What you are referring to is not in the bible, and is a modern creation of apologists, also not what I was talking about at all.

Don't look now but here it is from "the Bible."
14 “At that time God’s kingdom will also be like a man leaving home to travel to another place for a visit. Before he left, he talked with his servants. He told his servants to take care of his things while he was gone. 15 He decided how much each servant would be able to care for. The man gave one servant five bags of money.[a] He gave another servant two bags. And he gave a third servant one bag. Then he left. 16 The servant who got five bags went quickly to invest the money. Those five bags of money earned five more. 17 It was the same with the servant who had two bags. That servant invested the money and earned two more. 18 But the servant who got one bag of money went away and dug a hole in the ground. Then he hid his master’s money in the hole.

19 “After a long time the master came home. He asked the servants what they did with his money. 20 The servant who got five bags brought that amount and five more bags of money to the master. The servant said, ‘Master, you trusted me to care for five bags of money. So I used them to earn five more.’

21 “The master answered, ‘You did right. You are a good servant who can be trusted. You did well with that small amount of money. So I will let you care for much greater things. Come and share my happiness with me.’

22 “Then the servant who got two bags of money came to the master. The servant said, ‘Master, you gave me two bags of money to care for. So I used your two bags to earn two more.’

23 “The master answered, ‘You did right. You are a good servant who can be trusted. You did well with a small amount of money. So I will let you care for much greater things. Come and share my happiness with me.’

24 “Then the servant who got one bag of money came to the master. The servant said, ‘Master, I knew you were a very hard man. You harvest what you did not plant. You gather crops where you did not put any seed. 25 So I was afraid. I went and hid your money in the ground. Here is the one bag of money you gave me.’

26 “The master answered, ‘You are a bad and lazy servant! You say you knew that I harvest what I did not plant and that I gather crops where I did not put any seed. 27 So you should have put my money in the bank. Then, when I came home, I would get my money back. And I would also get the interest that my money earned.’

28 “So the master told his other servants, ‘Take the one bag of money from that servant and give it to the servant who has ten bags. 29 Everyone who uses what they have will get more. They will have much more than they need. But people who do not use what they have will have everything taken away from them.’ 30 Then the master said, ‘Throw that useless servant outside into the darkness, where people will cry and grind their teeth with pain.’



So what you are saying is I am to give everything away and become a servent, one like the story mentions above. But, when the Master of the house gives me one talent/bag of money I am to burry it and not reinvest like the other two servents did? Maybe read the story again if you still think this. However this time pay closer attention on verses 24-30

[Drich]

awwwe yes ... I've heard this one SOOO many times, and it's such a GIANT load of goddamn bull shit.

For several reasons:
1. The christards that make this claim NEVER give ALL their possessions away ... not even close. It's an outright lie.

So let start by looking at the word "possession" in the english it means something owned occupied or controled. which could literally mean anything and everything one owns. (which is what you seem to understand this word to mean.)

Now lets look at the koine Greek understanding of the word in a biblical context. the word is:
κτῆμα/ktēma
It direct meaning is the same as the english meaning, but in the biblical context Strong's/thayer's tell us it refers to:
a) of property, lands, estates

So in the biblical context to sell ALL of one's possessions means to sell ones, property, lands, estates. Which Makes one dependant on God for their day to day living. Just like a slave or servant would be.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexi...2933&t=KJV
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/possession

2. These liars like Drich, know that there's no way for anyone to validate this claim of sacrificing all worldly possessions. (especially online)

We all speak from a given POV, and someone else viewing the same event may have another take on what you experience. Aside from a possiable descrepency their, I have been nothing but open and honest with all aspects of my life. (For example I said My wife had a 250 dollar aday Herione habbit. I like averages so i gave the average. she will say she used what ever she had money to buy, and that would range from 150 to 300 dollars aday. In the end neither are wrong because it took a look at the money spent divided by the number of days, and she gave a day to day.)

I say all of that to say, that everything here even if it has my take on it, is truth. If i tell you something like I gave away all of my possessions then know by the strictest biblical standard I did what I said I did. Now, does that mean I did what you think I did? No, not by a long shot.
All i can do is tell you that we still live the same small place that i first moved out of my parents home. (>1000sq ft), and have forgone buying a home (even though we could have many different times) why? Because we took the money and gave it back/Reinvested it like with the story of the Talents.

3. "Give give give ... god will give it back." is nothing more than filthy propaganda to make the stupid poorer and the rich richer.

I Agree.

4. My devout christard father gave every spare dime he had and still does. NEVER has he received 100x back or even 2x back for that matter. Lies.

If you want I can put together a message that biblcally spells out our obligations for him/you, or sign him up to this web site, or give him my email address if he wants to have a private discussion.
(I'll do this durning my break if need be.)

5. Do you live in a house?

no

Do you own a car?

Several

Do you own a TV or radio?

I've have an awesome TV!

Do you ever go out to eat for dinner? Own a computer? A fishing pole?

yuup on all three.

Fucking liars. Every god damn one of 'em is full of excuses and steaming piles of bull shit.

-or-
some of us took the time to understand what was being asked of us, and then provide it, rather than take a prosperity preacher at his word.

What kind of limped-dick god uses empty promises to tax his own people because he can't seem to build a church himself or buy his preachers new cars? answer: a phoney one.

Or maybe it is a phoney preacher that tells you this. Your identification of general phoneyness is correct, I think you just put it on God, when God has not asked for any of what has been asked by your preacher.

I know I know ... "god's just testing us," and I'm "too blinded to see it," and "we can't pretend to know the will of god," and "god won't reveal himself to me because I'm not seeking hard enough." Blah blah blah blah ... you're all sheep.

Ironically you are correct. In that God is testing you. It's just not in the way you think. What I see god doing is testing or even forcing spiritual growth. In that are you willing to give up your current toxic form of worship, for what the bible identifies as genuine Fellowship? Or will you stay and try and buy your way to heaven because some preacher said so, and you haven't taken a serious look at what God is asking of you?

By the way -
Do you know why your god isn't coming back?

It's funny that you said that. i have a theory I am putting together and maybe will put a thread together after the first of the Year on it.

In the meanwhile, we will see what happens one way or another.

[Waratah]

So let start by looking at the word "possession" in the english it means something owned occupied or controled. which could literally mean anything and everything one owns. (which is what you seem to understand this word to mean.)

Now lets look at the koine Greek understanding of the word in a biblical context. the word is:
κτῆμα/ktēma
It direct meaning is the same as the english meaning, but in the biblical context Strong's/thayer's tell us it refers to:
a) of property, lands, estates

So in the biblical context to sell ALL of one's possessions means to sell ones, property, lands, estates. Which Makes one dependant on God for their day to day living. Just like a slave or servant would be.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexi...2933&t=KJV
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/possession

I followed your BLB link and it seems that the Greek word κτῆμα/ktēma is not used in Matthew 19:21 and Luke 12:33. Since the thread is talking about these verses which means you should be talking about the Greek word ὑπάρχοντα (LINKY). You would be not trying to mislead people and twist things to suit you purposes?

Don't forget the other questions you seem to be avoiding from the Avoiding questions thread.

[CapnAwesome]

So what you are saying is I am to give everything away and become a servent, one like the story mentions above. But, when the Master of the house gives me one talent/bag of money I am to burry it and not reinvest like the other two servents did? Maybe read the story again if you still think this. However this time pay closer attention on verses 24-30

That's not at all what I said. In fact I didn't say anything, Jesus told you to give away all your money to the poor and live a possessionless life. You are just reaching to justify your lifestyle. That's fine, but don't pretend you are a following the bible.

[The Grand Nudger]

Wouldn't be the first time a human being discarded shit advice as shit, would it? Let me help you Drich, this is very simple. You don't need to tie yourself into knots over Jesus to justify having possessions or wealth. You can still make yourself sound totally awesome, as though you're doing some good.

The poor have nothing to offer to each other.

[CapnAwesome]

So let start by looking at the word "possession" in the english it means something owned occupied or controled. which could literally mean anything and everything one owns. (which is what you seem to understand this word to mean.)

Now lets look at the koine Greek understanding of the word in a biblical context. the word is:
κτῆμα/ktēma
It direct meaning is the same as the english meaning, but in the biblical context Strong's/thayer's tell us it refers to:
a) of property, lands, estates

So in the biblical context to sell ALL of one's possessions means to sell ones, property, lands, estates. Which Makes one dependant on God for their day to day living. Just like a slave or servant would be.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexi...2933&t=KJV
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/possession

Loopholes for Christ! I'm sure Jesus would approve of you owning several cars and a big screen TV while people in the world starve. After all the ancient Greeks didn't have a word for car or T.V. So it must all be okay.

[ronedee]

Everyone straining on the knat as usual...

The focus of Jesus' doctrine isn't for the cozy climate, eye-blink of time we're on this planet! It's about obtaining Eternal Life!

Whats Jesus to say? Perhaps: "If you feel the need, and have a few extra denari...it might be nice to give some to the poor."

Like everything Jesus says, this is a message for those with eyes, ears, and hearts to understand! And those who don't... to hate.

We as Christians aren't the decipering tool (as much as you like to give us credit for) for a personal message! It either makes sense to you, or it doesn't.

A TRUE BELIEVER understands the Heart of the word, and sees the reason for it's universal need, as spoken and written!

And really now....Who but Jesus could've said this stuff and still be a cause of controversy 2000 years later? When I think about it...IT'S PERFECT!!

Matt 6:33. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

[The Grand Nudger]

Who but jesus? You have to be kidding. The author of the narrative....that's who said this stuff, and it certainly wasn't any fucking "jesus"