All Hail the Second Amendment

[Hoopington]

Illegal gun ownership has nothing to do with gun shows?

Absolutely nothing at all?

Please read what I actually said and what it is in response to.

Oh I have, unless your comprehension of basic level English is amiss today?

You asserted that Gun shows have nothing to do with....I tell you what, why don't you enlighten me, what do they have "nothing" to do with?

[Chas]

Please read what I actually said and what it is in response to.

Oh I have, unless your comprehension of basic level English is amiss today?

You asserted that Gun shows have nothing to do with....I tell you what, why don't you enlighten me, what do they have "nothing" to do with?

I asserted no such thing. I didn't say anything like "Gun shows have nothing to do with ...".

I said that the requirement for background checks has nothing to do with gun shows.

[Minimalist]

Horseshit, Chas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

As of August 2013, 17 U.S. states require background checks at gun shows.[11] Seven states require background checks on all gun sales at gun shows: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, New York, Oregon, and Rhode Island. Four require background checks on all handgun purchases at gun shows: Hawaii, Maryland, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. Six require individuals to obtain a permit that involves a background check to purchase handguns: Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, and North Carolina. The remaining 33 states do not restrict private, intrastate sales of firearms at gun shows in any manner.

I lived in NY for 55 years. I never even heard of a gun show. It's the 33 states in Gun Nut Nation that you have to worry about.

[Chas]

Horseshit, Chas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

As of August 2013, 17 U.S. states require background checks at gun shows.[11] Seven states require background checks on all gun sales at gun shows: California, Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, New York, Oregon, and Rhode Island. Four require background checks on all handgun purchases at gun shows: Hawaii, Maryland, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. Six require individuals to obtain a permit that involves a background check to purchase handguns: Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, and North Carolina. The remaining 33 states do not restrict private, intrastate sales of firearms at gun shows in any manner.

Bullshit, Min. Did you even read that?

Gun show loophole is a pejorative term-of-art that refers to private sellers at gun shows not being required to perform a background check on private buyers,
in a longstanding practice of private commerce in the United States.

It is not just gun shows - NO private sales require a background check and ALL dealer sales do.

Except that in Massachusetts, we are required to fill out and submit form FA-10 for some private sales now.

I lived in NY for 55 years. I never even heard of a gun show. It's the 33 states in Gun Nut Nation that you have to worry about.

2014 Gun Shows in NY
Apr 26-27 Batavia, Falleti Ice Arena 22 Evans Street, 180 tables-8' $35.00 ea. Adm. $6.00 Set up:Fri 1 to 7:30pm, Sat 7 to 8 am Show: Sat. 9 to 4, Sun 9 to 3 : [email protected] 716-434-65355
Apr 26-27 Liberty, Liberty Mall 110 8' tbls $45.00 Adm: $8.00 Sat 9-5, Sun 9-3 John Nicholes 845-866-0618

May 17 -18 Newburgh, NY, Ice Time Sports Complex, 21 Lakeside Road, Newburgh, NY 12550, Exit 17 off NYS Thruway to I-84, Exit 6, turn right off Exit to Lakeside Road. 225 8’ Tables, Dealer Set up Friday 1 to 8 PM, Saturday 8 – 9 AM Public hours Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3; NEACA Show Promotions 518-664-9743; http://www.NEACA.com
May 31, June 1 Norwich, NY, Chenango County Fairgrounds, East Main Street, Norwich, NY 13815, I-88 to Route 205 to Route 23 to Fairgrounds, From North take route 12 south to Norwich Fairgrounds phone 607-334-9198. 110 8’ Tables, dealer set up Friday 3 – 8PM, Saturday 8 – 9 AM, Public hours Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3; NEACA Show Promotions, 518-664-9743; http://www.NEACA.com

Jun 7 Herkimer, Saturday only, Michael S Plisek VFW Post #4915, 129 Mohawk Street, Herkimer, NY 13350, Exit 30 off NYS Thruway to Route 5 East, corner of Mohawk Street and Dewey Avenue, near Burger King, VFW phone 315-866-9353; 50 8’ Tables, Dealer set up Friday 3 – 8PM, Saturday 8 – 9 AM, Public hours 9 – 5; NEACA Show Promotions, 518-664-9743; http://www.NEACA.com
Jun 14-15 Saugerties, NY, Kiwanis Ice Arena, 6 Small World Avenue, Saugerties, NY 12477, NYS Thruway Exit 20, East on Route 32 through Village to show Arena phone 845-247-2590; 200 8’ Tables, Dealer set up Friday 1 – 8 PM, Saturday 8 – 9 AM, Public hours Saturday 9 – 5, Sunday 9 – 3; NEACA Show Promotions, 518-664-9743; http://www.NEACA.com
Jun 22 Saugerties, 168 Fish Creek Rd., tbls $15.00 Adm:free 9am-3pm . 845-247-7155

Aug 2-3 Old Forge, NY, Hiltebrant Center, 200 North Street, Old Forge, NY 13440, Exit 31 of NYS Thruway to Route 12 North to Route 28 East, 160 8’ Tables, Dealer set up Friday 2 – 8 PM, Saturday 8 – 9 AM, Public hours Saturday 9 – 5, Sunday 9 – 3; NEACA Show Promotions, 518-664-9743; http://www.NEACA.com
Aug 10 Unadilla, Ron & Gun Club, Butternut Rd 100 + spaces $15 each buy-sell-trade FREE ADMISSION Midstate Arms Collectors Show Manager: Sandy Ackerman Klinger 607-748-1010 1:00 PM-6:00 PM Weekdays
Aug 23-24 Saratoga Springs, NY, 522 Broadway, Saratoga Springs, NY 12866, Exit 15 off Adirondack Northway (I87), left on Route 50 to Broadway, City Center on left, City Center Phone 518-584-0027, 250 8’Tables, Dealer Set up Friday 2 – 8 PM, Saturday 8 – 9 AM, Public hours Saturday 9 – 5, Sunday 9 – 3; NEACA Show Promotions, 518-664-9743; http://www.NEACA.com
Aug 30-31 Newburgh, NY, Ice Time Sports Complex, 21 Lakeside Road, Newburgh, NY 12550, Exit 17 off NYD Thruway to I84, Exit 6, right off Exit to Lakeside Road. 225 8’ Tables, Dealer Set up Friday 1 to 8 PM, Saturday 8 – 9 AM Public hours Sat. 9-5, Sun. 9-3; NEACA Show Promotions 518-664-9743; http://www.NEACA.com

Sep 13-14 Syracuse, Center of Progress Bldg, NY State Fairgrounds, 581 State Fairgrounds Drive MAP 1000 8'' tbls $65 (members) $75 (non-members) Exhibitors only set up Fri 4-8 Sat 8-9 Show hours open to public Sat 9-5 Sun 9-3 A: $6. under 12 free w/adult Seniors $5, Guards on duty 24 hours daily. Show Manager: Sandy Ackerman Klinger 607-748-1010 1:00 PM-6:00 PM Weekdays SyracuseGunshow.com

And in liberal Democratic Massachusetts:

Massachusetts Gun Shows Listed by Date
Nov 8 1e - Nov 9 2d 6a 17 The Wilmington Gun Show 72 Wilmington MA
Nov 15 1f - Nov 16 2d 5c 11 Holbrook Gun Show 70 Holbrook MA
Dec 13 1f - Dec 14 2d 5c 11 Plymouth Gun Show 70 Plymouth MA
Dec 13 1f - Dec 14 2d 74 19 West Springfield Gun Show 78 West Springfield MA

2015 Massachusetts Gun Shows
Feb 14 - Feb 15 5d 81 Abington Gun Show Abington MA


Even Connecticut:
Connecticut Gun Shows Listed by Date
Nov 15 - Nov 16 59 10 Windsor Gun Show 1e5 Windsor CT

[Minimalist]

Yes but 33 states do not regulate gun show sales either, Chas. Which is where you are being disingenuous. And those 33 states are hooked up by a splendid interstate highway to the 17 who are trying to fix the problem and making it damn near impossible.

And you bet your ass it is a pejorative term. It sure as hell is when I use it.


Anyway.... another L-AGO bites the dust by blowing his balls off.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/texas...-practice/

An off-duty probation officer died Monday after accidentally shooting himself while practicing his gun skills.

Thomas Zaldivar accidentally shot himself in the groin about 3 p.m. at the Bullet Hole gun range in San Antonio, police said.

Texas...of course.

[Chas]

Yes but 33 states do not regulate gun show sales either, Chas. Which is where you are being disingenuous. And those 33 states are hooked up by a splendid interstate highway to the 17 who are trying to fix the problem and making it damn near impossible.

This is what makes these discussions/arguments so frustrating - you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. The background check is a federal law.

You can't be in the business of selling firearms unless you have an FFL.
The question is whether it is a private transaction between individuals or a commercial transaction with a dealer, not that it is at a gun show.

Whether or not a state has any regulations for gun shows has no bearing.

Mandated by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 and launched by the FBI on November 30, 1998, NICS is used by Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs) to instantly determine whether a prospective buyer is eligible to buy firearms or explosives. Before ringing up the sale, cashiers call in a check to the FBI or to other designated agencies to ensure that each customer does not have a criminal record or isn’t otherwise ineligible to make a purchase. More than 100 million such checks have been made in the last decade, leading to more than 700,000 denials.

A Federal Firearms License (FFL) is a license that enables an individual or a company to engage in a business pertaining to the manufacture of firearms and ammunition or the interstate and intrastate sale of firearms. Holding an FFL to engage in certain such activities has been a legal requirement within the United States of America since the enactment of the Gun Control Act of 1968.

I don't spout NRA nonsense - how about you stop spouting Bloomberg nonsense.

[stonedape]

The second one is scary. There are way too many guns now.

The only thing to fear is fear itself. There will be many more guns and many more idiots with guns. Innocent people will be shot by assholes with guns and there will never be a good guy with a gun to come to the rescue, ever. The only thing that can be done is out reach for gun safety courses. Discouraging gun ownership, discourages responsible gun ownership.

[Chas]

The second one is scary. There are way too many guns now.

The only thing to fear is fear itself. There will be many more guns and many more idiots with guns. Innocent people will be shot by assholes with guns and there will never be a good guy with a gun to come to the rescue, ever. The only thing that can be done is out reach for gun safety courses. Discouraging gun ownership, discourages responsible gun ownership.

Oh, rly?

After the office door was closed, staff members at Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital reported hearing loud arguing inside. The staff opened the door and saw a patient holding a doctor and caseworker at gunpoint. They immediately dialed 911. Gunshots were heard a short time later. The caseworker was shot and killed by the gunman. The doctor was grazed by the gunfire, and promptly pulled out his own gun and returned fire.When the patient emerged from the office, he was wrestled to the floor and disarmed by another doctor and caseworker. The suspect sustained multiple gunshot wounds, but was reportedly expected to recover. The doctor was expected to recover from his wounds as well. Many praise the doctor’s actions, which likely saved lives. The responding police chief said of the incident, “Without that firearm, this guy [the patient] could have went out in the hallway and just walked down the offices [shooting] until he ran out of ammunition.” (Bucks County Courier Times, Darby, PA, 7/25/14)

Victoria Davison was approached by two teenagers. One teen demanded, “I want the keys, car, everything.” When Davison hesitated to comply with the carjackers, one of them indicated they had a gun. That is when Davison pulled out her own firearm from her gym bag and fired. One assailant suffered a single gunshot wound and fell to the ground, while the second assailant fled on foot. Both suspects were later apprehended and face charges of armed robbery and theft. Both suspects were reportedly connected to a recent string of robberies and carjackings, one of which resulted in the shooting of a 43-year-old man. Davison was not injured during the incident. (The Daily Caller, Milwaukee, WI, 7/15/14)

A 28-year-old man was sitting on the backyard patio with his wife, 36, at around 10 p.m. when they were approached by a man wearing a mask. The man carried a gun and ordered the couple inside the home where their three young children—ages 6, 13 and 14—slept. Once inside, the husband was able to retrieve his firearm and fired. The police arrived a short time later, and the gunman was pronounced dead at the scene. The family remained unharmed. “It’s shocking,” a neighbor said. “But he had to do what he had to do to protect his family, his household.” (The Times-Picayune, New Orleans, LA, 8/22/14)

Joshua Black, 27, was with several others when they heard someone else inside his home around 1 p.m. Three suspects were already on their way out with a stolen handgun and two televisions before Black discovered they were there. Gunfire erupted between Black and the suspects, one of whom was fatally wounded. No other injuries were reported. One of Black’s neighbors said, “… if [the homeowner] didn’t have a gun, he might be the one who was killed. You got to do what you got to do [sic] to protect yourself.” (Guns.com, Indianapolis, IN, 8/1/14)

Quinton Wood was asleep just before 10 a.m. when he heard the doorbell ring followed by loud knocking. Wood said he was not expecting any visitors and did not recognize the black Ford Mustang parked in front of his home, so he retrieved his firearm as a precaution. When a 25-year-old stranger entered the home, Wood confronted him. Wood claimed the intruder continued toward him despite his warnings. Wood said, “… All I know is, I’m telling him [to] get down, stop. It went bad. He kept coming toward me and didn’t want to stop.” Wood fired once, striking the intruder in the chest. Police arrived shortly thereafter, and the suspect was taken to a local hospital. He is reportedly expected to make a full recovery. Wood was not injured during the incident. (KHOU.com, Houston, TX, 8/26/14)

[DramaQueen]

I think weapons should be regulated e.g no RPGs for you (this is relevant to my location)

[stonedape]

Chas-
What I meant was you can't count on a good guy with a gun. Look at Drama's situation in Libya. The assholes with guns think they're the good guys with guns. Good thing we live in america where you don't have to worry much about getting killed over your religious or political beliefs. But that can easily change over the course of a few decades. That's why I'm pro 2nd amendment. It's within your natural rights to have the means to defend yourself. If you are being prosecuted, you have a right to an attorney. If somebody wants to kill you, you have a right to arm yourself.