The logical consequences of omnipotence

[fr0d0]

I don't give much of a shit as to whether or not you believe my definition is applicable or not.

And there we have it. You don't care if your statement is inaccurate. Kind of sums up all atheist objections I've ever seen. Consequently worthless opinion.

Get back to me when you're interested. Until then... enjoy your fantasy

To repeat: I have made no claim. You have. I called you out on it. All you can do is try to deflect.

Let me repeat it for you: you claim that omnipotence, when applied to the Christian God, should be able to construct any illogical reality you pick out of the air. On the strength of that, you call the present working and logical reality flawed. (Yes, if you call God flawed, you also call this reality flawed, because that is what God represents)

You propose an un crashable aeroplane thinking that you don't have to show any logic to prove your claim. Then you scoff at the scientific community who shun you.

Unfortunately for you, Christianity rests on what is to you unfathomable logic. Undefeatable logic > proven.

[Esquilax]

And there we have it. You don't care if your statement is inaccurate. Kind of sums up all atheist objections I've ever seen. Consequently worthless opinion.

Get back to me when you're interested. Until then... enjoy your fantasy

Oh, I care very much if my statement is accurate. The mistake you're making is in assuming that what you say is correct. You're not always right, and you haven't demonstrated why I should think you are right now.

If you wish to convince me, actually do so, instead of just saying "Nuh-uh!" over and over.

To repeat: I have made no claim. You have. I called you out on it. All you can do is try to deflect.

So tell me why you disagree with me.

Let me repeat it for you: you claim that omnipotence, when applied to the Christian God, should be able to construct any illogical reality you pick out of the air.

Then you misunderstood my initial point. Mainstream Christianity tries to push this idea that their god is omnipotent, here meaning capable of doing literally anything. My claim isn't that god can construct any kind of reality, but that the ability to do anything means that one can do anything, and therefore christian apologetics about preserving free will make no sense. Or at least, they don't rely on necessity, but rather some deliberate inaction on god's part. That's what I was saying.

On the strength of that, you call the present working and logical reality flawed. (Yes, if you call God flawed, you also call this reality flawed, because that is what God represents)

Interesting view, but please understand it's not the one everyone shares. In this context, I'm using god as an agent that can affect this reality but, for various reasons, doesn't. My sole point was that the reasons presented by most apologists don't make sense.

You propose an un crashable aeroplane thinking that you don't have to show any logic to prove your claim. Then you scoff at the scientific community who shun you.

No. Christianity proposes the un-crashable airplane when it claims it has an omnipotent and all powerful god. I'm simply analyzing the canonical fiction that your group has presented. And there's nothing scientific about this anyway, since this god claim is untestable and unscientific in the extreme. This is more akin to a literary argument, analyzing the plot holes in a novel.

Unfortunately for you, Christianity rests on what is to you unfathomable logic. Undefeatable logic > proven.

One man's unfathomable logic is another man's unjustifiable bullshit. Go figure.

[fr0d0]

You're not always right, and you haven't demonstrated why I should think you are right now.

I've told you why. You need to now e check that out and come back with either acknowledgement or rebuttal. See neither.

[Ryantology]

Christianity rests on what is to you unfathomable logic.

Christianity rests upon absolutely no logic at all. You can't even prove your God exists.

[fr0d0]

Mainstream Christianity tries to push this idea that their god is omnipotent, here meaning capable of doing literally anything.

No, mainstream Christianity does no such thing. Mainstream Christianity maintains that God is all powerful and can do anything logical. God cannot do the illogical. This is theology 101. And also logic 101. It's an embarrassing point made by the naïve.

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One man's unfathomable logic is another man's unjustifiable bullshit. Go figure.

Both men have no clue yes.

[Esquilax]

No, mainstream Christianity does no such thing. Mainstream Christianity maintains that God is all powerful and can do anything logical. God cannot do the illogical. This is theology 101. And also logic 101. It's an embarrassing point made by the naïve.

Hoo boy! God cannot do the illogical? He does it all the time!

Like creating a species with free will but no knowledge of good and evil, and plonking them down right next to a tree he doesn't want them to eat from. And then creating a shit-stirring snake to go hang out on the tree for no good reason. And then getting surprised when some fruit gets nommed, despite the fact that he knew ahead of time what was going to happen.

Or creating that species in the first place, given he gave them the edict to "be fruitful and multiply" in a space that was entirely limited and featured no death.

Or his timeless, endless grudge against every human on the planet for the sins of long, long dead ancestors that, I would submit, wasn't that heinous to begin with.

Or a laundry list of others! God does weird, illogical stuff a whole bunch, actually. So if god can do anything logical, and is pretty free with the illogical stuff despite the fervent cries of believers... then isn't it fair to say he's omnipotent?

Oh, and I wouldn't go about saying this is logic 101 either, dude. It may be theology 101, but none of this is logical to an atheist, because we find the very concept somewhat laughable. It might be intuitive to you, with your willingness to defend this stuff, but to me the bible is damn near incomprehensible, because unlike you I'm not willing to see past the contradictions.

[Ryantology]

God cannot do the illogical.

Which includes existing.

[Celi]

No, mainstream Christianity does no such thing. Mainstream Christianity maintains that God is all powerful and can do anything logical. God cannot do the illogical. This is theology 101. And also logic 101. It's an embarrassing point made by the naïve.

I don't understand what you're claiming here at all. Omnipotent and all-powerful mean exactly the same thing. Also, could you explain what you mean by "logical"? Are you saying God can't do anything that would be precluded by the natural laws of the universe, or that just doesn't make any sense? Because that would, as Ryantology said, include his own existence.

[Surtr]

If God created and set in place the natural laws of the universe, why can he not bend them to his will?

[fr0d0]

If God created and set in place the natural laws of the universe, why can he not bend them to his will?

If it were logical to do so, he would. Christians believe that God manages his creation. He pilots it like a well oiled machine.