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RE: The logical consequences of omnipotence
January 21, 2013 at 9:50 am
(January 21, 2013 at 2:54 am)fr0d0 Wrote: If it were logical to do so, he would. Christians believe that God manages his creation. He pilots it like a well oiled machine.
That's why there are earthquakes and volcanoes and tornadoes and tsunamis, then? That's why his creations engulf themselves in conflict at all levels? That's why the vastness of space, filled with natural resources beyond compare, is so extremely hostile to a human race increasingly in need of them?
You can believe god has a hand in the universe, but don't ever pretend the universe is ideal, or even particularly well constructed. 
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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Re: RE: The logical consequences of omnipotence
January 21, 2013 at 4:01 pm
(This post was last modified: January 21, 2013 at 4:02 pm by fr0d0.)
What is wrong with natural disasters? Your puny species don't get fluffy pink realities... I don't have a problem with that. I'm not that egoistical that I need humanity to be even more of a scourge than it already is. I love reality. I need no fantasy to make my world perfect.
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RE: The logical consequences of omnipotence
January 21, 2013 at 4:23 pm
(January 21, 2013 at 4:01 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: What is wrong with natural disasters? Your puny species don't get fluffy pink realities... I don't have a problem with that. I'm not that egoistical that I need humanity to be even more of a scourge than it already is. I love reality. I need no fantasy to make my world perfect.
That irony's so sharp it could cut glass.
What's so wrong with natural disasters? Well, their presence contraindicates a perfect world, doesn't it? Especially one supposedly created with humans in mind.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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Re: The logical consequences of omnipotence
January 21, 2013 at 4:30 pm
No. What is perfect for humans isn't necessarily what humans want. Suffering is part of life. Life lives loves and dies. Take away one of those aspects and the others suffer.
I can't believe you're in disagreement with reality
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RE: The logical consequences of omnipotence
January 21, 2013 at 4:37 pm
(January 21, 2013 at 4:30 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: No. What is perfect for humans isn't necessarily what humans want. Suffering is part of life. Life lives loves and dies. Take away one of those aspects and the others suffer.
I can't believe you're in disagreement with reality
I'm in disagreement with your contention that reality was created as some perfect thing, or created at all. Note that I never said natural disasters don't happen, I asked how you account for them given the contradictory nature of your previous statements.
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RE: The logical consequences of omnipotence
January 21, 2013 at 4:42 pm
If the universe was made perfectly, we should be incapable of perceiving it as imperfect. The concept of imperfection should not make sense to us. We should also be incapable of improving upon it in any way, yet we have.
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Re: The logical consequences of omnipotence
January 21, 2013 at 6:55 pm
(This post was last modified: January 21, 2013 at 6:57 pm by fr0d0.)
We can only improve in ways allowed by it. The universe is potential.
(January 21, 2013 at 4:37 pm)Esquilax Wrote: I'm in disagreement with your contention that reality was created as some perfect thing, or created at all (1). Note that I never said natural disasters don't happen, I asked how you account for them given the contradictory nature of your previous statements.(2) 1. Of course you are.
2. There is nothing contradictory with my statements. There are plenty of contradictions with your statements.
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RE: The logical consequences of omnipotence
January 21, 2013 at 7:06 pm
(January 21, 2013 at 6:55 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: There is nothing contradictory with my statements. There are plenty of contradictions with your statements.
Explain. Unless you're just making a claim without backing as usual.
I march against the Asagods
To bring the end of time.
I am pure and endless pain
And Surtr is my name.
See me rise, the mighty Surt,
Destroyer of the universe.
Bringer of flames and endless hurt
Scorcher of men and Earth.
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RE: The logical consequences of omnipotence
January 21, 2013 at 10:16 pm
(January 21, 2013 at 6:55 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: 2. There is nothing contradictory with my statements. There are plenty of contradictions with your statements.
So the world is as a perfect god designed it, despite the fact that it occasionally explodes for no reason? That's this "well oiled machine" you talked about?
Also... yeah, people tend to need to back up statements like that. Where, exactly, have I contradicted myself? Please, go back and pull something out of your ass. I'll wait. 
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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RE: The logical consequences of omnipotence
January 22, 2013 at 12:52 am
(January 21, 2013 at 4:30 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: No. What is perfect for humans isn't necessarily what humans want. Suffering is part of life. Life lives loves and dies. Take away one of those aspects and the others suffer.
I can't believe you're in disagreement with reality How could the ideal human world not be something that humans would want? Why would suffering and death be part of it? God occasionally blows up a mountain because...it teaches us something? All I'd learn is not to live next to mountains full of lava and, perhaps, that the universe is ruled by chaos. Which would seem to be counter-productive.
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