Ridge: Bush officials sought to raise terror alert before '04 vote

[Eilonnwy]

Your "evidence" is an exercise in logical fallacies. It's completely laughable.

You have essentially made assertions, labeled them as facts, made false analogies, and then claim there is a connection here that thus leads to someone "running things", without proving that such an entity exists and that any comparison you can make between two presidents has to mean some group is running the government.

[binny]

Yes.....there is a group running the US government......they are......the Democrats.

[Eilonnwy]

Yes.....there is a group running the US government......they are......the Democrats.

Hah, with the way the Healthcare debacle is going, I truly wonder.

[binny]

Ha ha, oh sad, but true.

[Pippy]

Your "evidence" is an exercise in logical fallacies

Please, if you could spare the time, show me what you mean. That Obama went to Occidental is fallacious? That he sealed presidential records is fallacious? Is it not fact that his office is mostly dual citizens, and members of a very few think tanks? Show me the fact that it is not, and I will adapt. I am willing to be swayed by truth, but you have to say something more than "Those obviously aren't facts," Tell me why. Please discuss. Or don't, but you're sitting on the fence. Calling me names, saying how poor of a state-of-mind I must have, but showing no response. If my facts are wrong, please dear, correct them.

You have essentially made assertions

I don't think they are assertions. That Bush had a bailout is a fact. That Obama had a bigger one a few months later is also a fact. If I am mistaken, please show me where, or I shall consider your argument based solely on emotion and opinion? I am doing my best here, only to be lambasted by you, all the while you retort with nigh a fact of your own. Just that I must be stupid.

If you do not believe that someone is running America behind the curtain, feel free. I think that is pretty blind myself, but we are allowed to disagree.

I don't really want to go on and on, but you guys rile me up some days.

-Pip

[Eilonnwy]

You don't seem to realize that your ideas are not worth arguing against, they're crap. Also, considering what you said to Adrian in the kittenshare thread, it's even more clear how you simply believe what you want and don't consider, or care to read, any viewpoints that differ from your preconceptions. But just to humor you, I'll refute your post without presenting facts to the contrary, because I don't need to.

Bush had a bailout. It was a crime.
Barry had a bailout, it was bigger and more deceitful.

Calling the bailouts a crime and "more deceitful" is where you're placing assertions. That is not fact and it's a generalized statement that doesn't begin to consider the complexity of the bailouts. Simply stating they both had bailouts, generalizing them and labeling them as a crime without any evidence to suport your silly assertion, means this point is meaningless.

Bush named an administration of CEO and Execs. Illegal.
Barry named a cabinet of Israeli war criminals and Trilateral/PNAC thugs. Illegal and worrisome.

Here's another assertion. Back it up with proof. Name names, prove these people have associations you claim they do without just saying it. Prove anything illegal was done.

Bush had slumping public opinion, but then came the "attack" and the "war".
Barry is a rock star, but his polls are also slipping. When comes the false flag "attack" and the new "war"?

Assumes we agree 9/11 was a conspiracy, which is a premise we don't agree with. Furthermore, no attack had happened, no new war has happened with Barrack, so suggesting that it might happen does nothing for your argument. You're speculating, that's no evidence. That's also a Post Hoc argument.

The last thing Bush did before leaving was seal presidential records and re-write the laws about presidential (and vice residential) accountability and privacy. He in fact changed almost the entirety of the executive branch, well... Cheney did, he was the real president...
The first thing Barry did was seal his records from Occidental College, spending about $1,000,000 to do so. It seems strange that his first priority was to cover his tracks... And markedly similar to the last president.

"It seems strange" Is the key word. You show you're speculating without substantial facts to support, and how many times do we have to tell you that finding something "interesting" or "strange" is evidence for SHIT. Unless you have evidence to support that these two events have ANYTHING to do with each other that then prove they're working for the same "shadow government" you're blowing smoke.

There is someone higher up than both these egomaniacs. Someone picked Bush, and made him win. Someone also picked Barry, groomed him to near perfection, and put him in power too. The people that really run america, call it the (dum-dum-dum) shadow government are still in charge. Nothing has changed. That is why I say they are one and the same. And if nothing changes, whomever they pick for the next president will also be one of "them".

Prove it. You've posted assertions, not backed up, not shown to be linked to each other and the cause you claim these things have.

In other words, you're blowing smoke. Come back when you can actually back up the bullshit you spew.

[Pippy]

I will respond to this after work.

You guys aren't very polite.

Am I not allowed to hold a different opinion?

Look it up yourself, I did. I don't like to post wiki links. Obama's cabinet is what it is, whether or not I need to explain it to you word for word.

Fuck, I am getting tired of hanging out with you guys. No respect. I respect your views, but... Just making me upset.

Thank you, hopefully I have time after work

[Edwardo Piet]

Hold a different opinion? This is a matter of fact not opinion. And in matter of facts valid evidnence is required. Beliefs are not something to respect, they're something to back up with valid evidence.

EvD

[Eilonnwy]

You are free to hold a different opinion, and I respect your right to, but don't expect me to respect the opinion itself if you can't back it up with valid evidence. If all you're going to do is make unfounded conspiratoral claims, I will never take you seriously. And since you refuse to even read Adrian's points in the other thread, it just shows you're intellectually dishonest.

You're frustrated with us because we won't let you get away with making claims and then not back them up. We do it to everyone, you're not special. That's what happens when you enter the arena of people who adhere to the tenets of true science and scepticism.

[Pippy]

you can't back it up with valid evidence

(me) Barry named a cabinet of Israeli war criminals and Trilateral/PNAC thugs. Illegal and worrisome.

"AmericanFreePress is reporting on the extraordinary ties that members of his new cabinet have to these elitist globalist organizations (think tanks, edit me)that have dominated American politics for generations now.
The reality is that no President in the past 30 years has picked a cabinet that was not completely dominated by members of the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission and the Bilderberg group.
Of Barack Obama's 14 top cabinet selections, 9 of them are affiliated with the Bilderberg group, 10 of them are affiliated with the Council on Foreign Relations and 5 of them are affiliated with the Trilateral Commission"
Should I name names, or is this good enough? That took about 25 seconds.

(me) The last thing Bush did before leaving was seal presidential records... ...The first thing Barry did was seal his records from Occidental College

"Officials at Occidental College in Los Angeles, Calif., have been served with a demand to produce records concerning Barack Obama's attendance there during the 1980s because they could document whether he was attending as a foreign national – in one of three fronts now established by those contesting the president-elect's constitutional eligibility for the Oval Office. "
Why would they need to serve the college to get the paperwork. Oh, because Barky's lawyers are all over them... That took about 2 minutes.

(me)Bush had a bailout. It was a crime.
Barry had a bailout, it was bigger and more deceitful.

"Oddly, while announcing his toothless plan to the public, Obama’s Treasury Secretary had the gall to add some populist rhetoric in referring to Bush’s bank bailout: 'The spectacle of huge amounts of taxpayer money being provided to the same institutions that helped cause the crisis, with limited transparency and oversight, added to the public distrust.'
Exactly! But now the exact same thing is being done. Instead, as The New York Times points out:
… the plan largely repeats the Bush administration’s approach of deferring to many of the same companies and executives who had peddled risky loans and investments at the heart of the crisis and failed to foresee many of the problems plaguing the markets.' (The New York Times February 10, 2009)"
There, another google, another 30 seconds.

There is more, but there, is that what you wanted? I really hate to have to do that. I don't like posting other peoples media, and instead speak for myself. Could you not have done the google searches on your own, and figured it out for yourself? Instead of disagreeing with me on principle because I used one nasty trigger word of crazies, look it up. And when I used the term "shadow government", it was in reference to what would be the dictionary definition of such. Is it still CT madness?

I agree that it is actually a matter of facts and not opinions. But the facts are so messy, and there is so much disinformation, and people have a nasty habit of not seeing very scary things that go against what they believe... So it can be fairly called that Eilonnwy and I are disagreeing over a matter of opinion. Only because I don't want you to have to feel marginalized. If you want to think Obama is not the same as bush, just less beige, go ahead. I really respect your right to see the world however you see it. But you reacted very poorly to me saying that I dislike Obama, that he is very similar to Bush, and that someone else must hold a higher office than the two.

I don't really want to drag this out, any more that is... But I did what you asked, and posted silly news quotes. If I were you I would go for the jugular and discredit those stories. I would tell me that I am an idiot for believing such tripe. Seriously.

Thanks for your time,
-Pip