new testament, matthew chapter 2

[Minimalist]

Spoken like a "True" superstitious twit, Frods.

[John V]

Get back in your hole and keep digging old timer

Hay! Is you referalling to my buddy minniemousalist?!? He are write you know you Christyuns is stooooooopid.

[Cyberman]

The lithium wearing off, John?

[Minimalist]

Get back in your hole and keep digging old timer

Hay! Is you referalling to my buddy minniemousalist?!? He are write you know you Christyuns is stooooooopid.

Thank you for demonstrating the point.

[justin]

[quote='justin' pid='396389' dateline='1360034962']

no i didn`t disagree with joseph. i would`ve keep away from those nut cases also. but he didn`t stay in eygpt he was on his way to jerusaluem( not sure if i spelled that right?) then god came to him again and said change of plans herods son took over and he`s bad too so go to nazerath.

Let's look at what is actually written:
Mt2:
19 Now when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, 20 saying, “Arise, take the young Child and His mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the young Child’s life are dead.” 21 Then he arose, took the young Child and His mother, and came into the land of Israel.

22 But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning over Judea instead of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And being warned by God in a dream, he turned aside into the region of Galilee. 23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, “He shall be called a Nazarene.”

i mean i undertook the impression that god was a secret informant that wasn`t gonna do anything but just give joseph some tips here and there.

What gave you that impression? verse 23 points to the full fillment of prophesy rather than, the tip giving business. God's 'tips' always push in the direction of His will.

justin: 19-22 dude.......

my standards for a god like i said were higher and from the perception people have from the bible that i have dealt with. so with that said i was trying to get some a rational outside perspective to see if there was a better defense for this,as my opinion, bad cia movie.

...based on your standards of God. Or rather your personal idea of God. One that seems to be based in personal feeling.

lol and what`s up with all those innocent children that herod ordered to death? like i said i found myself asking "wtf?" alot.

Herod knew he was at the end of his life and wanted his legacy to continue on (look up Herod the greats accomplishments) He was setting up a 1000 year dynasty, and did not want some outside king to tear down what he spent a life time building.

justin: hock: ok then your god doesn`t mind mass slaughter of innocent children. got it. and to just make some stone age bullshit prophecy come true. man what an asshole.

first: ok so are you saying that satan is just as powerful or more powerful than god?

After creation God put man incharge of this world. At the fall of man Man gave control over to satan. At the time of Christ's physical birth (till his death) satan ruled this realm and had heavy influence over the hearts and mind of man. (Some sects of Christianity still believe he has this power over man.)

justin: doesn`t make any sense

before anything else is`nt jesus god?

The Name "Jesus" refers to the Physical incarnation of God the son, and The Physical aspect of of Jesus had a begining and an end.

Even so yes. Jesus was God the Son.
justin:k

oh ok so herod didn`t send the wise men? he was mad cause they were going to worship someone else? then why if god was fond of sendin g them messages did he not tell them where jesus was so they didn`t get confused and start this whole mess.

It's only a mess if your looking to control the hearts and minds of men.

justin: that doesn`t make any sense either.

i mean children died because of this decision to ignore the results that he knew would come from the mistake so what`s up with that?

'Death' is not the end for God. It is only the beginning of another phase of life. as such is not a crime/sin.

justin: pain, suffering, families torn apart?
again this makes no sense

third; 4;31 deuteronomy
31 (for the Lord your God is a merciful God), He will not forsake you nor destroy you, nor forget the covenant of your fathers which He swore to them.
This is a long way from the doctrine that says God is All Merciful, or is always bound to show mercy. For the same Bible speaks of the Wrath of God. If you read this passage contextually it simply says God is A merciful God. Meaning a God who shows Mercy. (But is not limited to this quality)

justin: you`re right he isn`t all merciful. another reason i wouldn`t follow him .thanks!

for mercy and matthew 5;44 tells to model after him to love your enemy.

44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

This is not even close to the doctrine of omni benevolence you were leaning on.

justin: uh friend or foe man friend or foe. he loves all....think on it a little bit

fourth: an earthly realm? like the physical realm? what did he do that wasn`t of this realm when he was here? this doesn`t seem to make any sense.

John 18:35 "Am I a Jew?" Pilate replied. "It was your people and your chief priests who handed you over to me. What is it you have done?" 36Jesus answered, "My kingdom does not belong to this world. If my kingdom belonged to this world, my servants would fight to keep me from being handed over to the Jewish leaders. But for now my kingdom is not from here."

justin: except for the whole....idk... WORSHIP ME OR BURN IN HELL YOU SINFUL SCUM THING! so again this doesn`t make sense. well you have given me your understanding and i have realized you don`t have a better explanation than anyone who supports these claim. thanks for your input, it made no sense just like your reasoning.

Christ makes several other references of this before his death when people want to elevate him to an earthly king.

[Drich]

justin: 19-22 dude.......

Context Justin. 23 frames all that happens in a proper context. God allowed those events to happen to full fill His will. His will being that Joseph had a legit reason to detour to Nazerath.

...based on your standards of God. Or rather your personal idea of God. One that seems to be based in personal feeling.

One that looks like it needs to be beaten a little more, if I take what you wrote in your post into consideration.

justin: hock: ok then your god doesn`t mind mass slaughter of innocent children. got it.

You are Begging the question. (Logical fallacy) Reset and try again.

and to just make some stone age bullshit prophecy come true. man what an asshole.

You don't seem to understand prophecy either. True prophecy is not a prediction. It is written as a record (like a historical event.) Prophets are given to view and record what the future holds. They don't guess at the future.

It was written because from That given prophet's perspective it had already happened. (That the savior would come from Nazerath.)

justin: doesn`t make any sense

I do not disagree that what I have said, may not line up with what you think you know, but it is biblically consistant. (If you remember our first few exchanges in this thread, I wanted to know how willing you were to question what you thought you knew about god and this religion.) If you want to study ANY thing I have said in more detail all you have to do is ask Here or by PM.

It's only a mess if your looking to control the hearts and minds of men.

justin: that doesn`t make any sense either.

Broken down (respectfuly as possiable)

1.God Gave Control of this world to man in the Garden. (by of a covenant God made with Adam to rule this realm.)

2.When Adam ate of the tree, control was passed to Lucifer. As Man gave into lucifer's temptations. This allowed Lucifer to weild the power given to man by God. (Because satan controled man through sin)

3.Lucifer Reigned up until the Death and resurection of Christ. Because Sin's hold on man had been broken/attoned for.

At the time Christ was a Child, Lucifer reigned (as Christ had not died yet.) Satan Controled Herod's Heart, thus controling Herod. God did not interfer because it would interfer with the conevant God made with Adam for him and his offspring to rule this world. In other words if God stopped Herod or put someone in place of Herod He would have to control the Hearts of man, thus invalidating everything God has done up to this point (allowing us true choice) and paving the way for attonement.

justin: pain, suffering, families torn apart?
again this makes no sense

Why? Because your version of God is Always merciful? Always the Halmark version of the word loving?? again you are asking about the nature of the character of the God of the bible. It is from the bible you frame your question, so it should also be from the bible you build a picture of God. Not your personal idea of Him.

justin: you`re right he isn`t all merciful. another reason i wouldn`t follow him .thanks!

That is what this life was given to us for. is to make that very determination. Once you have made your choice know you are ready to face eternity.

justin: uh friend or foe man friend or foe. he loves all....think on it a little bit

Look at the verse again. It does not Say God loves "friends or foes." These are instructions for believers.

God has compiled a list of those in whom He righteously hates/hated. Which again would not be possiable if that verse says what you think it does.

justin: except for the whole....idk... WORSHIP ME OR BURN IN HELL YOU SINFUL SCUM THING!

Preach it brother!

so again this doesn`t make sense. well you have given me your understanding and i have realized you don`t have a better explanation than anyone who supports these claim. thanks for your input, it made no sense just like your reasoning.

It makes no sense because you have closed your mind to anything that does not look like the strawman god you built from peices of your sunday school exposure. I have repersented God has He appears in scripture, I have further extend an invitation for you to explore any or all aspects of what I have explained. Just highlight concerns you and ask for B,C,V
(Book Chapter and Verse.)

I promise not to use one verse from here and one verse from there and so on to build a bastardized picture of God. I will assign whole Chapters and books to read so that contextual evidence can be gathered to frame an accurate biblical picture.

If it does not make sense, then know you are lacking some vital information. so ask a question. Unless I was right, and you have indeed closed your mind to anything that does not look like what you have created in your mind/church experience and labled 'god.'

[Minimalist]

I promise not to use one verse from here and one verse from there and so on to build a bastardized picture of God.

Why not? He is, after all, a bastard.