Woman burned alive for 'sorcery' in Papua New Guinea

[Brian37]

Was she a sourcer or whatever they accused her of? Did she present herself that way?

Just saying if that region was known to burn witches then why be a witch? If she was a witch then she knew the risks involved. If a police officer gets shot and killed in a specific community for doing his job, does the BBC or any other self rightous group/person comdemn that whole community? Or do we seek justice by looking for the person or people who comitted the actual crime? Why should this be any different? Oh that's right the 'self righteous are on an ironic witch hunt to persecute the religious!

You cannot be serious, please tell me you are being sarcastic.

[Drich]

Do you know anything about Papua New Guinea Dirch? You know, home of the Asaro Mudmen, Simbu Skeleton Men and what is thought by some to be one of the last groups of people on the planet that still practice ritual cannibalism the Korowai tribe. Many of the villages there are literally just a stones throw from the Stone Age. A large portion of the population believes that when someone gets sick and dies it is because one of their neighbors caused it. Did you know that practically everyone that lives there are Christians?

Do you know anything about Christianity Popeyes? Do you know that in Christianity we have no rules nor any regulations that tell any of us to burn anyone let alone witches? which kinda makes the rest of your arguement moot. For if 'we/christians' Do not have any 'christian rules' telling us to burn witches then the actions of people burning witches is not a matter of the christian faith. It then becomes a cultural thing, if the culture does not have laws on the books that says witches must be burnt at the stake, then it's on indivisuals...

Which brings me to the whole reason I posted in this thread to begin with. Why haven't any of you (including the people who orginally brought this story out of that part of the world) looked past the religious ties or even the cultural ones, to the actual indivisuals who committed the crime? Where's the out rage here? I mean how bigotted do your posts have to be before someone calls you out for being a racist? or at least an elieteist? Not just you Popeyes, but all who have built arguements based on religion or community. You dumb-assess fail to see that the religion you are blaming has nothing to do with this (my arguement would be the same for Islam if it applied) Nor does the community, that you have condemned (you Popeyes for lumping the Whole lot of them in to your condemning post) even though that nation does not have any laws making the hunting and burning of witches legal. Again because of this it is on the actual people responsiable for this crime, but you have condmened an entire island nation of people...

Not that I personally care about stuff like this (racism and being politically correct as it is apart of your 'morality' and not mine.) but I know you do, and I just want to take this oppertunity to nail you for your immoral hyprocritical 'thinking' or lack their of. Not just you pops, but everyone who has argued in the way i described, an does not have the sense to see his own hyprocrisy.

---

There are 'religions' that do all sorts of nasty things to Christians (including burning them.)

OK fucktard, I'll take the bait...

Provide one example where a Christian was burned.

Do you have access to the internet?
Do you have access to this 'new' site i believe it called goggle or maybe google I forget. (I might just have to google that one.) but anyway, It's called a search engine, and all you have to do is type in something like "Christian martyrs burned" and this site (believe it or not) will search the entire internet and look up pages that have to do with Christians being burned for what they believe.

I will leave you this "Hyperlink" and it will take you to the website I described with the search alread typed in for you. all you need do is simply "click" on one of the links on page, and you will have what you were looking for.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=na...CDqU&pbx=1

---

OK fucktard..,,..

I doubt the tard has ever fucked anyone but himself.

Meh, I've had better..

[Esquilax]

Do you know anything about Christianity Popeyes? Do you know that in Christianity we have no rules nor any regulations that tell any of us to burn anyone let alone witches? which kinda makes the rest of your arguement moot. For if 'we/christians' Do not have any 'christian rules' telling us to burn witches then the actions of people burning witches is not a matter of the christian faith. It then becomes a cultural thing, if the culture does not have laws on the books that says witches must be burnt at the stake, then it's on indivisuals...

Ah, you conveniently seem to have ignored my post on the last page, where I directed you to two separate instances of explicit instruction, in your bible, to kill witches. Maybe go back and read that. Or perhaps you were ignoring it on purpose?

Have you read your bible, Drich?

Which brings me to the whole reason I posted in this thread to begin with. Why haven't any of you (including the people who orginally brought this story out of that part of the world) looked past the religious ties or even the cultural ones, to the actual indivisuals who committed the crime? Where's the out rage here? I mean how bigotted do your posts have to be before someone calls you out for being a racist? or at least an elieteist? Not just you Popeyes, but all who have built arguements based on religion or community. You dumb-assess fail to see that the religion you are blaming has nothing to do with this (my arguement would be the same for Islam if it applied) Nor does the community, that you have condemned (you Popeyes for lumping the Whole lot of them in to your condemning post) even though that nation does not have any laws making the hunting and burning of witches legal. Again because of this it is on the actual people responsiable for this crime, but you have condmened an entire island nation of people...

Hey Drich? Has it ever occurred to you that people can be angry at more than one thing at a time? The fact is, it goes without saying that we're angry at the people who burned her. The simple fact that we're condemning the burning of this woman at all implies we don't like the act! There's nothing racist here, you blithering idiot. Not one of us has mentioned race, let alone in a negative context. The one difference between what we're doing and what you're doing is that we're all intellectually honest enough to see that religion is clearly at fault here too.

Because, and think this one through carefully, but where do you think these people got the idea that witches exist at all? Or that they're a threat that needs to be put down? There's no physical evidence of witchcraft, because witchcraft does not exist. Where are they most likely to have gotten these ideas from? They're not naturally occurring concepts, after all.

But, crazy as it sounds, they do appear in the holy book that these people, belonging to a predominantly christian nation, will have read. And lo and behold, despite your ignorant denials, there are indeed exhortations to murder witches in that same book! How crazy! /sarcasm.

Funnily enough, there's not exactly a huge tradition of atheists burning witches, now is there? I wonder why that would be? After all, according to you, religion doesn't come into it, so there should be at least some evidence of that...

Not that I personally care about stuff like this (racism and being politically correct as it is apart of your 'morality' and not mine.) but I know you do, and I just want to take this oppertunity to nail you for your immoral hyprocritical 'thinking' or lack their of. Not just you pops, but everyone who has argued in the way i described, an does not have the sense to see his own hyprocrisy.

Oh I see. So you've got no problem with racism, and given that you don't find it immoral I hazard a guess that you indulge in a little of it yourself, but you'll call us all out on it? And then call us hypocrites?

Interesting...

Do you have access to the internet?
Do you have access to this 'new' site i believe it called goggle or maybe google I forget. (I might just have to google that one.) but anyway, It's called a search engine, and all you have to do is type in something like "Christian martyrs burned" and this site (believe it or not) will search the entire internet and look up pages that have to do with Christians being burned for what they believe.

So basically "I have no evidence (tres unusual!) and will not bother looking it up either."

So, are you saying you made your initial assertion without any evidence at all then, Drich?

[Drich]

There's a crucial, crucial thing you seem to be missing here: witchcraft is not a real thing. Witchcraft. Is not. A real thing.

Let me guess you've never ventured past your mother's sight till you went to school, and even then you never wandered far?

Magic doesn't exist. Nobody is a witch.

In your "critical thinking" you have missed this little 'critical' tid-bit. Perception is everything, content/substance means very little when individuals are scared and frightened. IF This poor woman Sold herself as a Witch then to the less informed for All practical purposes she was a witch. One need not have any other qualification. (lest you forget the Salem witch trials)

Beyond that, this woman wasn't a witch, she was accused by a superstitious populace and burnt alive by a mob, if you'd bothered to read the original story. Beyond all this, even if she was presenting as capable of sorcery, why the fuck does that obligate her to avoid the violent thugs who would do her harm as opposed to, say, stopping the thugs in the first place?

I am a licensed to carry concealed firearms, and when I carry large sums of money I do, yet somehow I still find myself "AVOIDING VIOLENT THUGS WHO WOULD DO ME HARM, as Apposed to Stopping the Thugs in the First Place." Call me old fashioned because I subscribe to the whole (A crime has not been committed, till the actual crime gets committed philosophy.) You may Crave the world the Minority Report World Tom Cruise lived in, but I don't. Even if that means I don't get to openly carry large sums of cash, and have to go out of my way to avoid people who may do me harm for the money I carry.

It would hardly be her fault even if she did claim to be a witch: she didn't deserve to die.

Not the issue being discussed.

And this is where your cop analogy breaks down: the fact is, there's specific exhortations to kill witches in the bible (Exodus 22:18, Leviticus 20:27) but no such instructions for the murder of cops. So yes, we place some blame on the religion as well as the perpetrators of the crime, because the crime was committed on a religious basis. Without the religion, there would have been no crime. The religion created the problem ("there are witches!" actually, no there aren't) and then sold the solution. So to avoid talking about the religion would be patently ridiculous.

I'm confused was this woman murder by Old Testament Jews? Or do you simply not understand the division between Old Testament Judaism and Christianity?

But then, I might not be arguing my best right now: I'm still reeling from the sheer irony of you, of all people, calling anyone else self righteous.

Apparently you do not understand the context or the meaning of "Self righteousness." You are using it as an insult. I used it because your action literally fit the actual definition of the term.

Well first, I'd ask you to prove your assertion that violence is done unto Christians like this.

See the post i left Cato

But secondly, let me ask you a question: do you feel that, in your little universe where you're the most persecuted group ever, that these groups are justified in persecuting you? Do you feel like you should have to stay away due to the baseless beliefs of another group? See where I'm going with this?

no I do not. For all I did in my original post was to draw a parallel. In that Christians tend to avoid regions where they are being used as fire wood.

And at the end of the day, what was your point in asking the original question? What did you hope to gain? So what if she did present as a witch? Are you saying she deserved to be killed, or that it was somehow her fault?

To stir the pot, See I like starting out using an argument most LAZY Atheists can easily identify. One that starts out sounding like an old Christian standby argument that most atheist have encountered many times. But then I put a twist on it to catch these lazy people off guard. It makes them think for themselves to come up with something to address this new argument, or it identifies those who can't think for themselves and simply push on with the standard atheist argument to combat the standard Christian argument I started out with... Which are you Equlax?

Why do i do it?
To see how deep the rabbit hole goes. To see how ingrained are those who will answer are. To see if you paying attention, or if you are arguing to argue. In this case I hoped to show you how 'thin' a veil popular morality can be.

On one hand I get 'checked' everytime i say "You people" or Those people, and on the other "you people" have worked yourself into a frenzy, just because i question this poor lady's role in this whole mess. When you all saw an opportunity to soap box your 'morality' over what you thought was a Salem witch hunter's question, you All cast your core values to the wind in hope of hanging me out to dry. All of you are guilty of bigoted remarks, condemning Christianity, the community this woman lived in to even condemning the whole Island nation reducing them to cannibals. All the while skirting the FACT that neither the community, religion nor Nation in Question has laws promoting the burning of witches. Which makes this a senseless murder. Not a state sanctioned murder, Not a Religiously sanctioned Murder, Not even a Community wide sanctioned Murder.

To say it was more, to say it was the fault of the state or a given religion only shows your personal Prejudices against a given group of affiliation of people.

[Esquilax]

Let me guess you've never ventured past your mother's sight till you went to school, and even then you never wandered far?

God you're an arrogant little shit, aren't you?

In your "critical thinking" you have missed this little 'critical' tid-bit. Perception is everything, content/substance means very little when individuals are scared and frightened. IF This poor woman Sold herself as a Witch then to the less informed for All practical purposes she was a witch. One need not have any other qualification. (lest you forget the Salem witch trials)

Yes, and it doesn't make them any less wrong for burning her. But keep your note about perception in mind for a little later on, because I intend to beat your argument to death with it.

I am a licensed to carry concealed firearms, and when I carry large sums of money I do, yet somehow I still find myself "AVOIDING VIOLENT THUGS WHO WOULD DO ME HARM, as Apposed to Stopping the Thugs in the First Place." Call me old fashioned because I subscribe to the whole (A crime has not been committed, till the actual crime gets committed philosophy.) You may Crave the world the Minority Report World Tom Cruise lived in, but I don't. Even if that means I don't get to openly carry large sums of cash, and have to go out of my way to avoid people who may do me harm for the money I carry.

Excuse me? Minority Report? We're straw manning me this early? Do you think it's crazy to have a reasonable expectation of walking down the street without being set upon by criminals? Do you think these people should be excused for having violent thoughts in the first place?

Yes, of course it's prudent to avoid confrontation like that if you can, and if you weren't so stuck on exaggerating every argument that comes your way rather than responding to it, you'd see that I never argued that in the first place. However, why should we just bow our heads and avoid those who would do us harm, rather than addressing why?

]Not the issue being discussed.

It is if you keep insisting it's somehow her fault for being burnt alive.

I'm confused was this woman murder by Old Testament Jews? Or do you simply not understand the division between Old Testament Judaism and Christianity?

Remember that perception thing we talked about earlier? It doesn't fucking matter what your perception of the bible is, in this case. It matters what the people committing the crime believed, and they believed themselves to be good Christians, given that once again, Christian nation.

I know you're so amazingly arrogant that you believe your own unsubstantiated perversion of your religion is the only one that matters, but it's not. Try to keep that in mind: even within your own religion, you are in the minority.

Apparently you do not understand the context or the meaning of "Self righteousness." You are using it as an insult. I used it because your action literally fit the actual definition of the term.

Oh my god how can you be so dumb?

See the post i left Cato

The one where you sneered and said "look it up yourself?" Oh, I did.

no I do not. For all I did in my original post was to draw a parallel. In that Christians tend to avoid regions where they are being used as fire wood.

So if you don't think that, why are you defending it here? I guess you only care about persecution when you're the one being persecuted?

To stir the pot, See I like starting out using an argument most LAZY Atheists can easily identify. One that starts out sounding like an old Christian standby argument that most atheist have encountered many times. But then I put a twist on it to catch these lazy people off guard. It makes them think for themselves to come up with something to address this new argument, or it identifies those who can't think for themselves and simply push on with the standard atheist argument to combat the standard Christian argument I started out with... Which are you Equlax?

Two things: one, hearing you talking about getting other people to think is pretty rich, given you never seem to think about what we tell you, at all.

And second, at least do me the courtesy of spelling my fucking name right.

Why do i do it?
To see how deep the rabbit hole goes. To see how ingrained are those who will answer are. To see if you paying attention, or if you are arguing to argue. In this case I hoped to show you how 'thin' a veil popular morality can be.

Popular morality? What the fuck are you even talking about? Not one of us is arguing that murder is fine.

On one hand I get 'checked' everytime i say "You people" or Those people, and on the other "you people" have worked yourself into a frenzy, just because i question this poor lady's role in this whole mess. When you all saw an opportunity to soap box your 'morality' over what you thought was a Salem witch hunter's question, you All cast your core values to the wind in hope of hanging me out to dry. All of you are guilty of bigoted remarks, condemning Christianity, the community this woman lived in to even condemning the whole Island nation reducing them to cannibals. All the while skirting the FACT that neither the community, religion nor Nation in Question has laws promoting the burning of witches. Which makes this a senseless murder. Not a state sanctioned murder, Not a Religiously sanctioned Murder, Not even a Community wide sanctioned Murder.

Please provide just one quote from this thread that is bigoted, or that condemned anything other than the people who committed the crime and the religion that inspired it.

And no matter how much you blind yourself to it, yes there are religious instructions in the bible regarding witches, and odds on those instructions led to this turn of events.

To say it was more, to say it was the fault of the state or a given religion only shows your personal Prejudices against a given group of affiliation of people.

Or perhaps it shows a genuine conviction in the concept? How about this, Drich: if the religion wasn't to blame, kindly provide us with an alternate hypothesis. Where did this belief in witches, and this method and desire to dispose of them come from, if not the bible?

Put your money where your mouth is, genius.

[Drich]

---

Let me guess you've never ventured past your mother's sight till you went to school, and even then you never wandered far?

God you're an arrogant little shit, aren't you?

In your "critical thinking" you have missed this little 'critical' tid-bit. Perception is everything, content/substance means very little when individuals are scared and frightened. IF This poor woman Sold herself as a Witch then to the less informed for All practical purposes she was a witch. One need not have any other qualification. (lest you forget the Salem witch trials)

Yes, and it doesn't make them any less wrong for burning her. But keep your note about perception in mind for a little later on, because I intend to beat your argument to death with it.

I am a licensed to carry concealed firearms, and when I carry large sums of money I do, yet somehow I still find myself "AVOIDING VIOLENT THUGS WHO WOULD DO ME HARM, as Apposed to Stopping the Thugs in the First Place." Call me old fashioned because I subscribe to the whole (A crime has not been committed, till the actual crime gets committed philosophy.) You may Crave the world the Minority Report World Tom Cruise lived in, but I don't. Even if that means I don't get to openly carry large sums of cash, and have to go out of my way to avoid people who may do me harm for the money I carry.

Excuse me? Minority Report? We're straw manning me this early? Do you think it's crazy to have a reasonable expectation of walking down the street without being set upon by criminals? Do you think these people should be excused for having violent thoughts in the first place?

Yes, of course it's prudent to avoid confrontation like that if you can, and if you weren't so stuck on exaggerating every argument that comes your way rather than responding to it, you'd see that I never argued that in the first place. However, why should we just bow our heads and avoid those who would do us harm, rather than addressing why?

]Not the issue being discussed.

It is if you keep insisting it's somehow her fault for being burnt alive.

I'm confused was this woman murder by Old Testament Jews? Or do you simply not understand the division between Old Testament Judaism and Christianity?

Remember that perception thing we talked about earlier? It doesn't fucking matter what your perception of the bible is, in this case. It matters what the people committing the crime believed, and they believed themselves to be good Christians, given that once again, Christian nation.

I know you're so amazingly arrogant that you believe your own unsubstantiated perversion of your religion is the only one that matters, but it's not. Try to keep that in mind: even within your own religion, you are in the minority.

Apparently you do not understand the context or the meaning of "Self righteousness." You are using it as an insult. I used it because your action literally fit the actual definition of the term.

Oh my god how can you be so dumb?

See the post i left Cato

The one where you sneered and said "look it up yourself?" Oh, I did.

no I do not. For all I did in my original post was to draw a parallel. In that Christians tend to avoid regions where they are being used as fire wood.

So if you don't think that, why are you defending it here? I guess you only care about persecution when you're the one being persecuted?

To stir the pot, See I like starting out using an argument most LAZY Atheists can easily identify. One that starts out sounding like an old Christian standby argument that most atheist have encountered many times. But then I put a twist on it to catch these lazy people off guard. It makes them think for themselves to come up with something to address this new argument, or it identifies those who can't think for themselves and simply push on with the standard atheist argument to combat the standard Christian argument I started out with... Which are you Equlax?

Two things: one, hearing you talking about getting other people to think is pretty rich, given you never seem to think about what we tell you, at all.

And second, at least do me the courtesy of spelling my fucking name right.

Why do i do it?
To see how deep the rabbit hole goes. To see how ingrained are those who will answer are. To see if you paying attention, or if you are arguing to argue. In this case I hoped to show you how 'thin' a veil popular morality can be.

Popular morality? What the fuck are you even talking about? Not one of us is arguing that murder is fine.

On one hand I get 'checked' everytime i say "You people" or Those people, and on the other "you people" have worked yourself into a frenzy, just because i question this poor lady's role in this whole mess. When you all saw an opportunity to soap box your 'morality' over what you thought was a Salem witch hunter's question, you All cast your core values to the wind in hope of hanging me out to dry. All of you are guilty of bigoted remarks, condemning Christianity, the community this woman lived in to even condemning the whole Island nation reducing them to cannibals. All the while skirting the FACT that neither the community, religion nor Nation in Question has laws promoting the burning of witches. Which makes this a senseless murder. Not a state sanctioned murder, Not a Religiously sanctioned Murder, Not even a Community wide sanctioned Murder.

Please provide just one quote from this thread that is bigoted, or that condemned anything other than the people who committed the crime and the religion that inspired it.

And no matter how much you blind yourself to it, yes there are religious instructions in the bible regarding witches, and odds on those instructions led to this turn of events.

To say it was more, to say it was the fault of the state or a given religion only shows your personal Prejudices against a given group of affiliation of people.

Or perhaps it shows a genuine conviction in the concept? How about this, Drich: if the religion wasn't to blame, kindly provide us with an alternate hypothesis. Where did this belief in witches, and this method and desire to dispose of them come from, if not the bible?

Put your money where your mouth is, genius.

---

Before I go one with a proper response, I want to make sure that 'beating' you were talking about was included.. Or is it still fourth comming?

[Brakeman]

In the words of Drich's god,

Exodus 22:18
King James Version (KJV)

18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

The holy spirit living inside them told them she was a witch I'm sure or at least didn't tell them she wasn't, so why would Drich have a problem burning this poor young girl alive?

[popeyespappy]

In the words of Drich's god ancient fairy tale,

Exodus 22:18
King James Version (KJV)

18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

The holy spirit living inside them told them she was a witch I'm sure or at least didn't tell them she wasn't, so why would Drich have a problem burning this poor young girl alive?

FIFY

[Drich]

In the words of Drich's god,

Exodus 22:18
King James Version (KJV)

18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

The holy spirit living inside them told them she was a witch I'm sure or at least didn't tell them she wasn't, so why would Drich have a problem burning this poor young girl alive?

Is Drich an Old Testament Jew? Then why would he practice New Testament Christianity by following Old Testament Judaism?

---

Ah, you conveniently seem to have ignored my post on the last page, where I directed you to two separate instances of explicit instruction, in your bible, to kill witches. Maybe go back and read that. Or perhaps you were ignoring it on purpose?

or maybe some one needs to learn to be patient. I was answering posts in the order they were posted.

Have you read your bible, Drich?

Hey Drich? Has it ever occurred to you that people can be angry at more than one thing at a time? The fact is, it goes without saying that we're angry at the people who burned her. The simple fact that we're condemning the burning of this woman at all implies we don't like the act! There's nothing racist here, you blithering idiot. Not one of us has mentioned race, let alone in a negative context. The one difference between what we're doing and what you're doing is that we're all intellectually honest enough to see that religion is clearly at fault here too.

not true. The bigotry of the thread has span from region, to this country status as a third world nation, to the average level of education these people are privy to, what you all think they believe. This has been the focus of this thread. I do understand that people can be mad at several different things at once. The difference being is that they typically voice their concerns on all issues. Not just harp on a dead horse. (Which died the moment I informed you that christians do not have any biblical directive the advocates the burning of witches.)

Because, and think this one through carefully, but where do you think these people got the idea that witches exist at all? Or that they're a threat that needs to be put down? There's no physical evidence of witchcraft, because witchcraft does not exist. Where are they most likely to have gotten these ideas from? They're not naturally occurring concepts, after all.

do dome research before you speak. The term witch is an Anglo term that has been used in a generic form for the purpose of predigesting this story for you.
The idea of people being able to manipulate the super natural via spells and enchantments is not limited to the Christian involvement of witchcraft.

[Brakeman]

In the words of Drich's god,

Exodus 22:18
King James Version (KJV)

18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

The holy spirit living inside them told them she was a witch I'm sure or at least didn't tell them she wasn't, so why would Drich have a problem burning this poor young girl alive?

Is Drich an Old Testament Jew? Then why would he practice New Testament Christianity by following Old Testament Judaism?

Oh yes! I'm terribly sorry, I'd forgotten that women in the past didn't feel pain and had no trouble with being burnt alive. I'm sure they were ok with it. Now burning a woman alive today would be wrong because it would hurt, and women just aren't in to that thing anymore. Besides, the eternal never changing god changed his mind about that anyway. Right?