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RE: Being good without god
February 21, 2013 at 5:20 pm
(This post was last modified: February 21, 2013 at 5:25 pm by EGross.)
(February 21, 2013 at 4:43 pm)catfish Wrote: Nah, that's all fine and dandy, just don't be trying to support the "uncorrupted text" position and I don't care what you believe... :-
I am off to bed. Maintaing my talmid chocham persona take a lot out of me! 
So we have gone in several circles. The current position of this circle is:
The Tanach is corrupt and cannot be trusted.
(Tanach = the 5 books, the prophets, and the writings)
The Book of Matthew relies on the Tanach for all of it's prophesies that Jesus supposedly fulfilled.
So the problem with taking such a position is that it is truthful to say that he fulfilled nothing since the source from which he had to fulfill is itself not trustworthy, based on your opinion noted above.
But I do understand your quandry.
You see, book of Matthew is riddled with non-existing prophecies, changed/mangled prophecies, and items that are not prophecies, but called "fulfilled". It also contains names in a genealogy for which there is no source, and has a marriage for which there is no source. Now the best solution to this, obviously, is to call the whole thing corrupt while really, REALLY, wanting to maintain those parts that will support your position, while discarding those that undermine your position.
(I wrote a treatise on those problems about 10+ years ago, back when I was helping Jews for Judaism, and it took 168 pages just to explain all of the problems).
Hopefully you see the problem with such a position, especially since the Church Fathers were so adamant on appending their texts to the existing Jewish ones. Would they have done so had they thought that their foundation was contaminated, like a bad scientific sample? One would not think so, but it isn't without possibilities.
But it isn't new. I have hear some recent Christian apologetists proclaim that the Greek text of the Old Testament is the true text. The problem is that all of the "weird shit", as you called it, is still in the Greek text too.
Anyhow, I get dizzy from spinning rides.
Good luck on your journey.
Now back to my atheist persona! 
“I've done everything the Bible says — even the stuff that contradicts the other stuff!"— Ned Flanders
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RE: Being good without god
February 21, 2013 at 5:31 pm
What the fuck are you talking about? EGross is your atheist persona. 
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RE: Being good without god
February 22, 2013 at 2:16 pm
(February 21, 2013 at 5:31 pm)catfish Wrote: What the fuck are you talking about? EGross is your atheist persona.
Come on, admit you just got owned in every category.
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RE: Being good without god
February 22, 2013 at 2:26 pm
(February 22, 2013 at 2:16 pm)iameatingjam Wrote: (February 21, 2013 at 5:31 pm)catfish Wrote: What the fuck are you talking about? EGross is your atheist persona.
Come on, admit you just got owned in every category.
Admit that your blind. How did I get owned? He couldn't make up his fucking mind...
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RE: Being good without god
February 22, 2013 at 2:31 pm
(February 22, 2013 at 2:26 pm)catfish Wrote: (February 22, 2013 at 2:16 pm)iameatingjam Wrote: Come on, admit you just got owned in every category.
Admit that your blind. How did I get owned? He couldn't make up his fucking mind...
Why is it so difficult for you to admit that you just got your ass handed to you?
You know, we aren't going to think less of you (if that is actually possible) because you admit you are wrong. In fact, it might up your credibility (which is desperately lacking) here on the forums.
Think about it.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Einstein
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RE: Being good without god
February 22, 2013 at 2:40 pm
(This post was last modified: February 22, 2013 at 2:40 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
LOL, couldn't make up his mind? Pot meet kettle cherrypicker.
I'm sure you didn't really have any trouble but lets see how few sentences we can recap that last bit with.
If we believe that the text is not corrupt, can be trusted, we have a problem.
If we believe that the text is corrupt and cannot be trusted we have a problem.
If we believe that we can pick and choose what is or is not corrupt along the lines that support our position we have a problem.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Being good without god
February 22, 2013 at 2:57 pm
(This post was last modified: February 22, 2013 at 3:00 pm by catfish.)
(February 22, 2013 at 2:31 pm)Baalzebutt Wrote: (February 22, 2013 at 2:26 pm)catfish Wrote: Admit that your blind. How did I get owned? He couldn't make up his fucking mind...
Why is it so difficult for you to admit that you just got your ass handed to you?
You know, we aren't going to think less of you (if that is actually possible) because you admit you are wrong. In fact, it might up your credibility (which is desperately lacking) here on the forums.
Think about it.
Wow, you guys are blind...
He tried saying God was fucked up by citing Bible verses. I posted one verse and got him to admit he wasn't sure.
You guys have been deluded into thinking an atheist has all the answers when it's obvious, at least one of you doesn't. (and the rest who blindly follow too)
Puppets are stupid, predictable, and just afraid to debate using their real nicks...
.
(February 22, 2013 at 2:40 pm)Rhythm Wrote: LOL, couldn't make up his mind? Pot meet kettle cherrypicker.
I'm sure you didn't really have any trouble but lets see how few sentences we can recap that last bit with.
If we believe that the text is not corrupt, can be trusted, we have a problem.
If we believe that the text is corrupt and cannot be trusted we have a problem.
If we believe that we can pick and choose what is or is not corrupt along the lines that support our position we have a problem.
The difference between you and I is that I don't need someone to tell me what to think...
.
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RE: Being good without god
February 22, 2013 at 3:06 pm
(February 22, 2013 at 2:57 pm)catfish Wrote: Wow, you guys are blind...
He tried saying God was fucked up by citing Bible verses. I posted one verse and got him to admit he wasn't sure.
You guys have been deluded into thinking an atheist has all the answers when it's obvious, at least one of you doesn't. (and the rest who blindly follow too)
Puppets are stupid, predictable, and just afraid to debate using their real nicks...
The difference between you and I is that I don't need someone to tell me what to think...
.
You're right. We are the ones that follow things like science and logical thought blindly. Shame on us for believing something we actually have evidence for.
As far as differences are concerned, we follow little things like evidence and facts. I know these aren't enough for someone of your stature though. You need the writings of bronze-age sheepfuckers to know what the truth really is.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Einstein
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RE: Being good without god
February 22, 2013 at 3:09 pm
(This post was last modified: February 22, 2013 at 3:12 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 22, 2013 at 2:57 pm)catfish Wrote: The difference between you and I is that I don't need someone to tell me what to think...
. Ignoring that nothing in any of our conversations has ever lent any support for such a statement.......
Regardless of whether someone concocts a ridiculous position for you or you come up with it yourself - it's still a ridiculous position.
Did you have anything to say about the post you linked? If not, you didn't really have to link it. You and I are well beyond pretense, right?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Being good without god
February 22, 2013 at 3:12 pm
I think the kudos button should be a circle-jerk button...
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