If ignorance is bliss...

[Dee Dee Ramone]

Religion (and commandments) are what provides one's moral standards. Ignorance is bliss in a non-believers case because they do not know about religion or the commandments. But, if you are aware of them, you should use them for yourself, not to please God, but for yourself. And if you are able to follow them, you will eventually be rewarded.

Ignorance is bliss, but not many atheists can follow that because they are aware of it all. Unless I count their lack of belief as ignorant, which I won't go into, because it is just rude.

Your entire post proves your misunderstanding of atheism.

[Cyberman]

Religion (and commandments) are what provides one's moral standards. Ignorance is bliss in a non-believers case because they do not know about religion or the commandments. But, if you are aware of them, you should use them for yourself, not to please God, but for yourself. And if you are able to follow them, you will eventually be rewarded.

Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"
Priest: "No, not if you did not know."
Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"
-- Annie Dillard

Ignorance is bliss, but not many atheists can follow that because they are aware of it all. Unless I count their lack of belief as ignorant, which I won't go into, because it is just rude.

In that case, thank you for not bringing that up.

[John V]

With AA and other 12 step programs, the term is "higher power of our understanding." Doesn't have to be god. Could be the 12 step group itself, nature, the universe, anything the individual holds higher than him/herself.

Step 2 says higher power or power greater than ourselves. Step 3 says God and adds "as we understood him." Later steps just say God. Some people try to use things like the group as you note, but that makes no sense with some of the steps.

[Simon Moon]

Step 2 says higher power or power greater than ourselves. Step 3 says God and adds "as we understood him." Later steps just say God. Some people try to use things like the group as you note, but that makes no sense with some of the steps.

There are non-theistic versions of 12 Step programs that do not bring up any gods. The 'higher power' they refer to is that which is in each of us.

And you know what? The non-theistic versions of 12 Steps are just as effective. No deities needed.

[naimless]

I was certainly a lot happier entertaining theism.

I would happily believe it all again if I could but I can't.

[fr0d0]

Atheism is a negative world view. It takes a strong constitution to keep your head up given such inbuilt opposition.

[John V]

There are non-theistic versions of 12 Step programs that do not bring up any gods. The 'higher power' they refer to is that which is in each of us.

And you know what? The non-theistic versions of 12 Steps are just as effective. No deities needed.

If someone went to AA, where it is based on God, and recovered, would you just be happy that they found something that worked, or would you tell them they should find an atheist 12 step group?

[Something completely different]

Religion (and commandments) are what provides one's moral standards. Ignorance is bliss in a non-believers case because they do not know about religion or the commandments. But, if you are aware of them, you should use them for yourself, not to please God, but for yourself. And if you are able to follow them, you will eventually be rewarded.

Ignorance is bliss, but not many atheists can follow that because they are aware of it all. Unless I count their lack of belief as ignorant, which I won't go into, because it is just rude.

That`s a pritty big judgement your making there?!

How do you know that I am ignorant, Because I am a non-believer?
And I reject gods moral values because of the good of sociaty, because gods laws are inferior and even in violation of mans common morals and laws.

I also reject religion because uncertainty - doesnt make me happy.

[festive1]

There are non-theistic versions of 12 Step programs that do not bring up any gods. The 'higher power' they refer to is that which is in each of us.

And you know what? The non-theistic versions of 12 Steps are just as effective. No deities needed.

If someone went to AA, where it is based on God, and recovered, would you just be happy that they found something that worked, or would you tell them they should find an atheist 12 step group?

If they're leaning on god as a crutch, the one thing stopping them from drinking, then I, for one, would like nothing better than to kick that crutch out from under them. We are all born good without god, we're just told what to believe from our parents' own superstitions. My dad stopped drinking because of AA. Was that a good thing? Perhaps... But my dad hasn't progressed beyond being a dry drunk for 25 years. He still lies, still manipulates, still maims those around him.... That's not living, that's existing, life has so much more to offer.

[Simon Moon]

If someone went to AA, where it is based on God, and recovered, would you just be happy that they found something that worked, or would you tell them they should find an atheist 12 step group?

No, I would be happy with their success. Most of the 12 steppers I've met only use the term 'god' in an almost deist context. There are several in my family that are no more religious than I am.

I am very honest with them and tell them that their success in the 12 step program had nothing to do with their tacking on the belief of a deity. They should take the credit, because they were responsible for their own success.