If ignorance is bliss...

[rexbeccarox]

If someone went to AA, where it is based on God, and recovered, would you just be happy that they found something that worked, or would you tell them they should find an atheist 12 step group?

If they're leaning on god as a crutch, the one thing stopping them from drinking, then I, for one, would like nothing better than to kick that crutch out from under them. We are all born good without god, we're just told what to believe from our parents' own superstitions. My dad stopped drinking because of AA. Was that a good thing? Perhaps... But my dad hasn't progressed beyond being a dry drunk for 25 years. He still lies, still manipulates, still maims those around him.... That's not living, that's existing, life has so much more to offer.

Sounds like my dad, although it wasn't AA, it was just becoming extremely religious and spending his life between church and the stock market ticker. He was an asshole until the day he died. But, hey, he left his church quite the tidy sum of money; more than what he left my sister or me, I might add. So, yeah, my dad stopped drinking largely because of religion. Nothing else about him got better. In fact, he just got meaner.

[Ryantology]

Atheism is a negative world view. It takes a strong constitution to keep your head up given such inbuilt opposition.

That's funny, I thought it was the Christian idea that mankind is flawed, evil, and degenerate, and can never be good unless they ask for God's help (and actually receive it). I thought Christians can't wait for the world to end, so that they can sit up in Heaven and watch the non-believers get their just desserts.

I don't know how that is considered 'positive'. To me, Christianity sounds like a depressing, misanthropic death cult.

[Aegrus]

Atheism is a negative world view. It takes a strong constitution to keep your head up given such inbuilt opposition.

Applying your personal feelings to every atheist, fr0d0?

[BeefiestName]

No. It's not okay. But that's just because I care about whether the things we believe are true or not. How something makes you feel is entirely separate from its truth.

[Creed of Heresy]

Religion (and commandments) are what provides one's moral standards. Ignorance is bliss in a non-believers case because they do not know about religion or the commandments. But, if you are aware of them, you should use them for yourself, not to please God, but for yourself. And if you are able to follow them, you will eventually be rewarded.

Ignorance is bliss, but not many atheists can follow that because they are aware of it all. Unless I count their lack of belief as ignorant, which I won't go into, because it is just rude.

Mmm...kaaaay, so since you said Religion AND commandments, I am going to assume you mean the Abrahamic Religions, and their basis in the Ten Throat Clearings of Introduction to Yahweh, and not just any religion.

Which already paints you as a spewer of bullshit and ignorance yourself since you are clearly ignorant of the morality and laws devised by human civilizations long before yours ever saw the light of day...and the ones devised after your religion's advent in parts of the world that never actually encountered any of those commandments regardless. Not to mention the laws and customs and morals of those "dirty savages" in the Americas...wherein murder and rape amongst one's tribe was considered the most veil and heinous of things, laws were established between tribal confederacies in mutual respect of one anothers lands and customs, all without ever even hearing a breath about your mumbo-jumbo.

Do tell me more about how morals come exclusively from your religion, or any religion at all, for that matter! If morality means to be good, you guys are sure up shit's creek on that account anyway, what with your inquisitions and murderous crusades and your ever-present refusal to get with the modern program on social progress. Seriously, you guys ever just gonna get that stick out of your ass in regards to homosexuality? Heheh, didja see what I did there? Stick in your ass? Homosexuality? Hoo I kill myself with my razor-sharp wit... No but seriously, do tell me what is objective morality, and do try to explain to me how it has any bearing on the world around us. And don't be offended when, after the conversation inevitably falls to the "because god said so," I dismiss the entire argument as "god is an unfounded claim and therefore so is the rest of your argument and therefore I casually dismiss everything you've just said because it's a castle built on pillars of sand."

Hot damn, I disappear for a week, and my mojo returns. I'm back, baby.

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Atheism is a negative world view. It takes a strong constitution to keep your head up given such inbuilt opposition.

That's funny, I thought it was the Christian idea that mankind is flawed, evil, and degenerate, and can never be good unless they ask for God's help (and actually receive it). I thought Christians can't wait for the world to end, so that they can sit up in Heaven and watch the non-believers get their just desserts.

I don't know how that is considered 'positive'. To me, Christianity sounds like a depressing, misanthropic death cult.

You know...I've always thought that way myself. Christians seem to think that Christianity is always this idea of positivity. And oh, sure, on the surface, it is! I'm not joking, on the surface, Christianity really IS a warm fuzzy feel-good religion full of kittens and rainbows.

It's when you scratch away that surface, though, that you see the bile and cancerous rot that it really is to the human condition.

Ooo, and this gives me a fantastic chance to play one of my most FAVORITE biblical games of all time; Who Can Spot the Contradiction in the Supposedly Infallible Bible?

Ezekiel 18:20: The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Suddenly Psalms 51:5: Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

But then, a wild Romans appeared!

Romans 5:12: Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

3:23: For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

And remember, such a loving book it is, too, as Hosea 13:16 shows us:

Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.

Now THAT'S good ol' fashioned peaceful tolerance and love!

Oh and Genesis 3:16: To the woman he said, “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”

Yes. Needlessly inducing pain in ALL women because the first woman decided to eat an apple. God's so forgiving and kind, and truly none of the descendants ever suffer for the crimes of the mother. Blessed be his merciful name!

And in keeping with this theme of o thy merciful lordshipliness and not making the offspring suffer for the crimes of the parents, we have Hosea again, remarking on the punishments for daring to worship idols, with Hosea 9:12-16

Even if they rear children, I will bereave them of every one. Woe to them when I turn away from them! I have seen Ephraim, like Tyre, planted in a pleasant place. But Ephraim will bring out their children to the slayer. Give them, O LORD--what will you give them? Give them wombs that miscarry and breasts that are dry. Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal, I hated them there. Because of their sinful deeds, I will drive them out of my house. I will no longer love them; all their leaders are rebellious. Ephraim is blighted, their root is withered, they yield no fruit. Even if they bear children, I will slay their cherished offspring.

Wombs that miscarry. Just remember that the next time some christian dipshit starts talking about abortion being murder. God intentionally caused abortion through miscarriage and for those that survived the infants died of starvation, and for those that survived, he just killed them outright. BUT NONE SUFFER THE SINS OF THE FATHER!

I'd go on but my sides are really starting to hurt.

[Ryantology]

Well, it has been made clear by several of our Christians that they perceive things differently from normal people. You and I would consider the savage murder of children in war to be abhorrent, but Christians think it's a wonderful thing, if God commands it to happen.

[Creed of Heresy]

Well, it has been made clear by several of our Christians that they perceive things differently from normal people. You and I would consider the savage murder of children in war to be abhorrent, but Christians think it's a wonderful thing, if God commands it to happen.

Because god's will is righteous, supposedly, except when called upon to make the definition of righteous they fail to do so, and when called upon to define god they also fail to do so, falling back on silliness like "god is unknowable, the bible tells me so, so I know it is so!"

If god is unknowable then he's not worth thinking about or even considering, much less making my life revolve around.

[Aegrus]

Religion (and commandments) are what provides one's moral standards. Ignorance is bliss in a non-believers case because they do not know about religion or the commandments. But, if you are aware of them, you should use them for yourself, not to please God, but for yourself. And if you are able to follow them, you will eventually be rewarded.

Ignorance is bliss, but not many atheists can follow that because they are aware of it all. Unless I count their lack of belief as ignorant, which I won't go into, because it is just rude.

It sounds like you just did go into it.
Actually not going into it would have been you not mentioning your bigoted stereotypes at all.

[fr0d0]

Atheism is a negative world view. It takes a strong constitution to keep your head up given such inbuilt opposition.

That's funny, I thought it was the Christian idea that mankind is flawed, evil, and degenerate, and can never be good unless they ask for God's help (and actually receive it). I thought Christians can't wait for the world to end, so that they can sit up in Heaven and watch the non-believers get their just desserts.

I don't know how that is considered 'positive'. To me, Christianity sounds like a depressing, misanthropic death cult.

I think you have said, as has everyone else that I've asked recently, that you agreed that humans are flawed.
The differences in our world views, are that mine is positive, having a belief that human flaws are overcome, and yours are negative, as you just put up with the flaws.

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Applying your personal feelings to every atheist, fr0d0?

Not feelings. Plain logic. It applies to everyone without real reason to be positive. Theist and atheist.

[Aegrus]

That's funny, I thought it was the Christian idea that mankind is flawed, evil, and degenerate, and can never be good unless they ask for God's help (and actually receive it). I thought Christians can't wait for the world to end, so that they can sit up in Heaven and watch the non-believers get their just desserts.

I don't know how that is considered 'positive'. To me, Christianity sounds like a depressing, misanthropic death cult.

I think you have said, as has everyone else that I've asked recently, that you agreed that humans are flawed.
The differences in our world views, are that mine is positive, having a belief that human flaws are overcome, and yours are negative, as you just put up with the flaws.

You seem to be forgetting that atheism is not linked to a belief that humans are flawed. (Though, of course, everyone I know will admit that they are, including yourself.) Atheism also sin't linked to a belief that humans must simply "put up with" our flaws.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I very much think that human flaws are capable of being overcome. You don't need a god to think that. Prisoners are capable of reform. Science, art, and organized nations built by human determination and discipline have vastly improved our lives for the better. I personally am no longer on depression medication (a vestige from my childhood, incidentally, before I was an atheist), and I'm doing just fine.

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Not feelings. Plain logic. It applies to everyone without real reason to be positive. Theist and atheist.

This is a word salad. But it's becoming quite obvious; In attempting to tell us about atheists, you're only telling us about yourself.