Are depressed people more realistic?

[Mystic]

[quote='Rhythm' pid='423550' dateline='1364666256']
Perhaps it's better to be deluded and wrong if it's all going to amount to the same in the end.

In the matrix, one person didn't appreciate being awakened from it because it made him less happy. He was happy being deluded.

I don't know. If I didn't find what seems to me to be a solution to the problem of evil, I don't know what I would do with belief in value, praise, free-will, human rights, justice and perpetual identity.

Truth maybe scary and terrifying, in the sense, not much humans can handle it. Still like a courageous idiot, I'm seeking it instead of living life according to what is pragmatic.

Truth may hurt us beyond measure. Or it may free us and empower us.

I still have my bets on the truth is worth the quest.

[Shell B]

Perhaps it has to do with what I have learned in relation to the concentration camps through movies related to the war. Too many Jews were captured for them to have known the war was coming.

Interestingly, many of the Jews and persecuted peoples stayed put even after the war began. The Holocaust was separate from the war, though certainly a by-product or offshoot of it, if you will. Knowing the world is going to be at war and knowing that a genocide is going to occur are two distinct things. Predicting genocide is a slice more difficult.

Russian Family So Isolated for 40 Years They Hadn’t Even Heard of WWII

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/...d-of-wwii/

[/quote]

One family is hardly indicative of the entire world, though I do think you were linking that out of sheer interest. I assume you didn't think it pertained to this subject specifically.

[Silver]

I do think you were linking that out of sheer interest. I assume you didn't think it pertained to this subject specifically.

Yes. Also, unless it pertains to religion specifically, I do not know too much in regards to history.

[Angrboda]

Perhaps it's better to be deluded and wrong if it's all going to amount to the same in the end.

I don't know. If I didn't find what seems to me to be a solution to the problem of evil, I don't know what I would do with belief in value, praise, free-will, human rights, justice and perpetual identity.

Truth maybe scary and terrifying, in the sense, not much humans can handle it. Still like a courageous idiot, I'm seeking it instead of living life according to what is pragmatic.

The problem with this, for me, imo, is that you've already decided that truth has a specific shape, and taste, and smell, and color. So when you go seeking truth, you aren't so much seeking truth as you are seeking confirmation. And there's a difference.

---

(This point is debated at great length in the literature, from FallenToReason's recently quoted essay of William James, to Popper's critical rationalism, to Feyerabend, to Kuhn,
to Foucault, to Derrida, to Nietzsche. It may be impossible to step outside our own biases, hunches, intuitions, and beliefs. But I don't think it's necessary to be a slave to them, either.)

Anyway. Just my two cents worth. Shalom.


The ancient masters were subtle, mysterious, profound, responsive.
The depth of their knowledge is unfathomable.
Because it is unfathomable,
All we can do is describe their appearance.
Watchful, like men crossing a winter stream.
Alert, like men aware of danger.
Courteous, like visiting guests.
Yielding like ice about to melt.
Simple, like uncarved blocks of wood.
Hollow, like caves.
Opaque, like muddy pools.
Who can wait quietly while the mud settles?
Who can remain still until the moment of action?
Observers of the Tao do not seek fulfillment.
Not seeking fulfillment, they are not swayed by desire for change.

— Tao Te Ching, Ch. 15

[Shell B]

I do think you were linking that out of sheer interest. I assume you didn't think it pertained to this subject specifically.

Yes. Also, unless it pertains to religion specifically, I do not know too much in regards to history.

Well, you always have time to learn, if history interests you.

[The Grand Nudger]

Trouble with history, is there's entirely too much of that shit floating around. I shut the blinds right around 8kbc and call it square, personally..lol.

[Mystic]

The problem with this, for me, imo, is that you've already decided that truth has a specific shape, and taste, and smell, and color.

Yeah I decided before that shape, taste, smell and color, was 12ver Shiite Islam, and in particular the Wilayatal Faqih and Irfan type.

Then I left it, but believed in Divinity with a gnostic view.

Then I left that, and became without believe in divinity or a Creator, but just inclination/strong hope of a Creator.

And now I am agnostic with belief in soul/supernatural and morality/praise originating from supernatural and believe in a Creator, but I don't claim I am certain.

So when you go seeking truth, you aren't so much seeking truth as you are seeking confirmation.

If I was only seeking confirmation, I would have sticked with Theists or went on a Deist forum.

Anyways, no one seeks truth with no confirmation bias. Absolutely no one.

I can honestly say, I am doing my best to go against my confirmation bias.

But even Atheists have confirmation bias. Out of the Atheists here, who tried to refute the problem of evil, even though majority here claim they are agnostics? (ie. not strong type atheists)

No, they rather just repeat the argument, then think of a solution. Yet, I went looking for arguments that would strengthen the case for the argument of evil and refute defense of the problem of evil. Then I went looking for arguments to refute that. And so on and so forth.

Something I noticed about religious people, is they often tell you to open your mind up and not be bias towards the truth but seek the truth sincerely. They believe they have sought the truth sincerely. But they don't this to their fellow believers. They emphasize it only towards people that don't believe as they do.

And look and behold, Atheists tend to think like this too, that they as Atheists have sought the truth sincerely, but others haven't.

Whatever the truth is, it doesn't mean those who found it, are the only truth seekers out there.

I've been struggling to find the truth through out my life. Yes I had confirmation bias. Is it my fault that I do? I don't think so.

Right now, I am terrified of letting go of the belief of the supernatural, because it seems to me praise, value, free-will, perpetual identity and human rights, would all be false.

In fact, for the brief days I let go of the belief in supernatural, I became severely sick and depressed, and praise, value, etc, all seemed to me to be delusions. I know I can't handle it really.

If people can prove to me, supernatural or non-supernatural, praise, goodness, value, perpetual identity, free-will, remains true...I don't think anything would make me more happier, because, I'm kind've apathetic towards supernatural existing were it not goodness, value, perpetual identity, free-will, and praise. I care because this effects how I live.

I went to the Library, picked up a book on moral psychology, that starts from evolution, it's innate nature, etc, and they were essays written against one another, in reply to one another, and it seems what I went looking for, wasn't there. It seems to me, that essays refuting naturalist believing in (objective) morality were stronger. So I stopped reading but will go back to it in time.

You have to understand, we aren't all so strong, that we can live not believing either way.

I have inclination to the supernatural, and yes, I do hope I become certain in it, because I sure don't want to become a nihilist (unless someone can show me how I am deluded in that thinking all evidence shows naturalism implies nihilism).

[The Grand Nudger]

Whether or not you can handle something, and wether or not that something is accurate are entirely different things Mystic. But meh, as Apo was saying awhile back, if the goal is subjective pleasure then it would hardly matter. Keep your ghosts and goblins if it keeps you from blowing your damned head off......

In the meantime, hoping that others would take the time to prove to you that there can be hope without magic might just be approaching the endeavor ass backwards.
(all evidence shows that naturalism implies nihilism?....whew boy...)

[Mystic]

Whether or not you can handle something, and wether or not that something is accurate are entirely different things Mystic.
But meh, as Apo was saying awhile back, if the goal is subjective pleasure then it would hardly matter. Keep your ghosts and goblins if it keeps you from blowing your damned head off......

I know, but I can't be expected to not have a bias towards a belief I cannot live without. This is understandable and something I do forgive myself of doing. In fact, I would say it would be evil from my very belief of morality, if I became apathetic towards morality/praise/virtue/perpetual identity/free-will/value..

In the meantime, hoping that others would take the time to prove to you that there can be hope without magic might just be approaching the endeavor ass backwards.
(all evidence shows that naturalism implies nihilism?....whew boy...)

Well I am going to go back to reading those three books on moral psychology. Then read more books. But then I'm going to consult naturalists that are experts in the subject. I am hoping someone can prove to me that I am wrong so far, and so that, I can be at peace, while agnostic.

[The Grand Nudger]

Prove I'm wrong, prove I'm wrong, prove I'm wrong. Some stains just don't wash out. As you continue to reference peace, then wouldn't whatever brought you peace be the way to go brosef? No need to keep looking, if what you have does that.