Pascal's Wager (the new version)

[Something completely different]

As many humans believe in God, his probability (for another human) should be >0

2000 years ago the entire human population (except for the oftern forgoten and genius Chinese) believed the world was flat.

Even if a million people believe something wrong to be right it doesnt make it right.

How come?
If you life (for you) is worth 10 Million Dollars (Usually people value their lives with money, happiness, etc.)
Then 1 year of live will worth 10/Age
and as your remaining time is reducing by time, so is the value of your life

Let me give you an example
You have cancer and Doctors are saying that you are going to die in few days, a Priest came to you and said: just say I believe in JESUS, you will go to Paradise!

Even though that I know for sure that Christianity is false, what will you do?

no

cause Jesus said that "those who dont follow me should be cast into the fire and burn"

If I should encounter him after death and his inmoral views which are infirior to modern human moral values, all he will get is german fury and Viva la revolution


Life is worth living for one only has this life and one can give it purpose and enjoy it.


edit:

I may add that only the sickest fucks add a financial value to human life.
But what else to expect

after all it was saudi arabia which abolished slavery last in 1979, and yours is a religion which condols slavery.

[Cato]

Islam is the only religions that can be based on proofs

You've never had the pleasure of speaking to a Mormon, have you?

[genkaus]

As many humans believe in God, his probability (for another human) should be >0

Only if his existence depended on how people believing in him. Otherwise, another failed argument.

How come?
If your life (for you) worth 10 Million Dollars (Usually people value their lives with money, happiness, etc.)
Then 1 year of live will worth 10/Age
and as your remaining time is reducing by time, so is the value of your life

You really don't understand economics either, do you? Saying that my total life is worth 10 million dollars is would be a forward trade - i.e. value of my life at the end of it as estimated now. It would have no bearing on the current value of my life. In fact, I'd expect the value to my life to go up as I near my death, because then I'd have less and less of it and simple law of supply and demand dictates that the value should go up.

Let me give you an example
You have cancer and Doctors are saying that you are going to die in few days, a Priest came to you and said: just say I believe in JESUS, you will go to Paradise!
Even though that I know for sure that Christianity is false, what will you do?

---

I'd laugh at him.

Non existence of knowledge is not a knowledge of non existence[/b]

An Atheist is a person who doesn't know, not a person who knows that there will be no hereafter

Being a gnostic atheist - I do know.

[Muslim Scholar]

2000 years ago the entire human population (except for the oftern forgoten and genius Chinese) believed the world was flat.

Even if a million people believe something wrong to be right it doesnt make it right.

I didn't say it is right, assume that you lived at that time, and didn't have a clue about the shape of the earth
For you, the probability of the earth being flat should be >0
(because you don't have any other information)

cause Jesus said that "those who dont follow me should be cast into the fire and burn"

If I should encounter him after death and his inmoral views which are infirior to modern human moral values, all he will get is german fury and Viva la revolution

I'm not discussing this specific example

Life is worth living for one only has this life and one can give it purpose and enjoy it.

You still didn't answer the question
If you are dying and a monk came to you, just Say "hooray krishna" and you will be in Paradise, would you say it or not?

after all it was saudi arabia which abolished slavery last in 1979, and yours is a religion which condols slavery.

You can create another thread if you are interested about this subject, Yes Islam allows Slavery, and not only that It should continue not to be abolished.

[Something completely different]

I didn't say it is right, assume that you lived at that time, and didn't have a clue about the shape of the earth
For you, the probability of the earth being flat should be >0
(because you don't have any other information)

Take a deep breath.

Now

Breath in

breath out

breath in

breath out

close your eyes

breath in

breath out

Now asume you live in the 21 century. Where the entire world and certainly the entire scientific comunity agrees that the world isnt flat.

Why then still follow a religion why says the world is flat (Islam) ?

I'm not discussing this specific example

Then why did you give it in the first place?

You still didn't answer the question
If you are dying and a monk came to you, just Say "hooray krishna" and you will be in Paradise, would you say it or not?

No, because he couldnt prove to be right

And when I die, I will eighter want to be drunk and alone or with my closest friends and family, if some random mok, iman or priest would turn up at my deathbed I would call the police.

You can create another thread if you are interested about this subject, Yes Islam allows Slavery, and not only that It should continue not to be abolished.

Take a deep breath.

Now

Breath in

breath out

breath in

breath out

close your eyes

breath in

breath out

Now asume you live in the 21 century. Where the entire world and certainly the entire scientific comunity agrees that slavery is wrong.

Why then still follow a religion why says the slavery is alright (Islam) ?

[Muslim Scholar]

Why then still follow a religion why says the world is flat (Islam) ?

Thanks for this statement!
This can be a proof for Islam not against it
in Quran God said specifically that the Earth is spherical
Not only that a Pressed sphere (Like a pumpkin)
See Quran 79:30
And after that He spread the earth
The word "Spread" here is not a very accurate translation
The Arabic word used is "دحاها" which is not in English; it means extending a sphere (Usually a paste to make bread; is made first as a sphere then pressed a bit to look like a pumpkin)

Another more clear verse is saying
39:5. He has created the heavens and the earth with truth. He makes the night to go in the day and makes the day to go in the night. And He has subjected the sun and the moon. Each running (on a fixed course) for an appointed term. Verily, He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving.

The words in Red in Arabic are just one word (Which is a verb from sphere or ball) it means make the day and night go over each other as a ball is rotating over another ball

Amazing???
No one at that time could have knew that, it is only observed from outer space.
The verse is also referring to the Sun and Moon orbits.

I'm not discussing this specific example

Then why did you give it in the first place?

Just to say that when you are going to die, you will accept anything that has any probability (>0) claiming that you will be happy in another life.

You still didn't answer the question
If you are dying and a monk came to you, just Say "hooray krishna" and you will be in Paradise, would you say it or not?

No, because he couldn't prove to be right

This thread is not about proofs it is about waging and statistics

Why then still follow a religion why says the slavery is alright (Islam) ?

Slavery is not wrong!
Can you prove otherwise?

[Ryantology]

Slavery is not wrong!
Can you prove otherwise?

It is okay if I enslave you, then? I could use some unpaid labor around the house.

[Something completely different]

Thanks for this statement!
This can be a proof for Islam not against it
in Quran God said specifically that the Earth is spherical
Not only that a Pressed sphere (Like a pumpkin)
See Quran 79:30
And after that He spread the earth
The word "Spread" here is not a very accurate translation
The Arabic word used is "دحاها" which is not in English; it means extending a sphere (Usually a paste to make bread; is made first as a sphere then pressed a bit to look like a pumpkin)

دحاها means Dhaha - which means: "streched"/"spread"

You made the mistake of assuming that I didnt have a dictonary.

This is the 21 century the "bad translation" argument is kaputt

Another more clear verse is saying
39:5. He has created the heavens and the earth with truth. He makes the night to go in the day and makes the day to go in the night. And He has subjected the sun and the moon. Each running (on a fixed course) for an appointed term. Verily, He is the All-Mighty, the Oft-Forgiving.

couldnt find that verse

The words in Red in Arabic are just one word (Which is a verb from sphere or ball) it means make the day and night go over each other as a ball is rotating over another ball

Amazing???
No one at that time could have knew that, it is only observed from outer space.
The verse is also referring to the Sun and Moon orbits.

The image you posted was taken recently.

Here is an image showing "the flat globe" from an islamic book from the 14th century:



sticking feathers up your ass doesnt make you a cock!


Now please explain these flat earth koran verses:

Qur'an 15:19
والارض مددناها والقينا فيها رواسي وانبتنا فيها من كل شئ موزون
Waal-arda madadnahawaalqayna feeha rawasiya waanbatnafeeha min kulli shay-in mawzoonin
And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.

مَدَدْ = madad = protract , reach , elongate , extend , draw out , lengthen, stretch out , spread out , sprawl , dilate , reach , range , unwind , outstretch , pervade

Qur'an 20:53
الذي جعل لكم الارض مهدا وسلك لكم فيها سبلا وانزل من السماء ماء فاخرجنا به ازواجا من نبات شتى
Allathee jaAAala lakumu al-ardamahdan wasalaka lakum feeha subulan waanzala mina alssama-imaan faakhrajna bihi azwajan min nabatinshatta
He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky." With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others.

مَهْدًا = mahdan = (Noun) cradle or bed, (verb) flatten, smoothen, smooth, level, cement, grade, ram, plane, roll, flat, level off.

Qur'an 43:10
الذي جعل لكم الارض مهدا وجعل لكم فيها سبلا لعلكم تهتدون
Allathee jaAAala lakumu al-ardamahdan wajaAAala lakum feeha subulan laAAallakum tahtadoona
(Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein, in order that ye may find guidance (on the way);

مَهْدًا = mahdan = (Noun) cradle.or bed, (verb) flatten , smoothen , smooth , level , cement , grade , ram , plane , roll , flat , level off

Qur'an 50:7

والارض مددناها والقينا فيها رواسي وانبتنا فيها من كل زوج بهيج
Waal-arda madadnahawaalqayna feeha rawasiya waanbatnafeeha min kulli zawjin baheejin
And the earth- We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, and produced therein every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)-

مَدَدْ = madad = protract , reach , elongate , extend , draw out , lengthen, stretch out , spread out , sprawl , dilate , reach , range , unwind , outstretch , pervade , lengthen

Qur'an 51:48
والارض فرشناها فنعم الماهدون
Waal-arda farashnahafaniAAma almahidoona
And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out!

فَرَشَْ = farasha = provide with furniture , flatten , outspread , pervade , circulate , cement , grade , unwind , stretch , expand , flat , range , reach , ram , spread out , lengthen , sprawl , unfold , level off , roll out , level
الْمَهِدُونَ from مَهِدُ = flatten , smoothen , smooth , level , cement , grade , ram , plane , roll , flat , level off

Qur'an 71:19
والله جعل لكم الارض بساطا
WaAllahu jaAAala lakumu al-ardabisatan
And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out),

بِسَاطًا = bisaatan = drugget , carpet , rug from the verb بسط = outspread , flatten , flat , even , ram , grade , level off , outstretch , pave , level , smoothen , roll , cement

Qur'an 78:6
الم نجعل الارض مهادا
Alam najAAali al-arda mihadan
Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse,

مهاد = flat land , flat , plain , ramming

Qur'an 79:30
Arabic: والارض بعد ذلك دحاها
Transliteration: Waal-arda baAAda thalika dahaha
Literal: And the earth/Planet Earth after that He blew and stretched/spread it

Qur'an 88:20
والى الارض كيف سطحت
Wa-ila al-ardi kayfa sutihat
And at the Earth, how it is spread out?

Notice the word سَطَّحَ ? If you do a word search in an Arabic Qur'an text file you will find the word سطحت , feminine for سَطَّحَ
سَطَّحَ = outspread , unfold , unroll , roll , lengthen , level , range , pave , pervade , circulate , grade , reach , even , level off , spread out , prostrate , plane , outstretch, flat , flatten , even , smoothen.

Qur'an 91:6
والارض وماطحاها
Waal-ardi wama tahaha
By the Earth and its (wide) expanse

Qur'an 2:22
الذي جعل لكم الارض فراشا والسماء بناء وانزل من السماء ماء فاخرج به من الثمرات رزقا لكم فلا تجعلوا لله اندادا وانتم تعلمون
Allathee jaAAala lakumu al-arda firashan waalssamaa binaan waanzala mina alssama-i maan faakhraja bihi mina alththamarati rizqan lakum fala tajAAaloo lillahi andadan waantum taAAlamoona
Who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith Fruits for your sustenance; then set not up rivals unto Allah when ye know (the truth).

Qur'an 18:86
حتى اذا بلغ مغرب الشمس وجدها تغرب في عين حمئة ووجد عندها قوما قلنا ياذا القرنين اما ان تعذب واما ان تتخذ فيهم حسنا
Hatta itha balagha maghriba alshshamsi wajadaha taghrubu fee AAaynin hami-atin wawajada AAindaha qawman qulna ya tha alqarnayni imma an tuAAaththiba wa-imma an tattakhitha feehim husnan
Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

Qur'an 18:47
ويوم نسير الجبال وترى الارض بارزة وحشرناهم فلم نغادر منهم احدا
Wayawma nusayyiru aljibala watara al-arda barizatan wahasharnahum falam nughadir minhum ahadan
One Day We shall remove the mountains, and thou wilt see the earth as a level stretch, and We shall gather them, all together, nor shall We leave out any one of them.

Qur'an 2:144
We have seen the turning of thy face to heaven (for guidance, O Muhammad). And now verily We shall make thee turn (in prayer) toward a qiblah which is dear to thee. So turn thy face toward the Inviolable Place of Worship, and ye (O Muslims), wheresoever ye may be, turn your faces (when ye pray) toward it. Lo! Those who have received the Scripture know that (this revelation) is the Truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do.

^^

This verse tells all Muslims to pray towards the Ka'aba (qiblah being the direction that one has to face in order to do this). This is only possible on a flat earth model. Due to the sphericity of the earth, a prayer in any direction will point towards the sky/outer-space, not Mecca.

and a nice following conclusion:

As quoted in the beginning of this article, Sheik Abdul-Aziz Ibn Baaz, the supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia, believes the earth is flat, and so does Muslim Researcher on Astronomy Fadhel Al-Sa'd, who declared in a televised debate aired on Iraqi Al-Fayhaa TV (October 31, 2007) that the Earth is flat as evidenced by Qur'anic verses and that the sun is much smaller than the Earth and revolves around it.[14]
As devout Muslims, they have good reason to conclude the Earth is flat; the Qur'anic verses 15:19, 20:53, 43:10, 50:7, 51:48, 71:19, 78:6, 79:30, 88:20 and 91:6 all clearly state this and not a single verse in the Qur'an hint to a spherical earth.
While many have attempted to explain away this 'oddity' to fellow Muslims and Westerners, they prey on their listeners ignorance of the Arabic language. In short, there is no escaping the fact that, according to the Qur'an, the earth is flat as a pancake.

Just to say that when you are going to die, you will accept anything that has any probability (>0) claiming that you will be happy in another life.

No, there is no reason to.

This thread is not about proofs it is about waging and statistics

Why convert to a faith when it cannot be proven to be true, when you previously stated that a faith had to prove it was true

you seem to enjoy contradicting yourself

Slavery is not wrong!
Can you prove otherwise?

It undermines the right to selfdetermination which is a right of each and ever individual.

Built on the basis that humans are equal and therefor should have the same rights and the basis that every human being has the right to determin her lifes path by him or herself

Are you in support of slavery?

[Cinjin]

Slavery is not wrong!
Can you prove otherwise?

Actually I can make you a firm believer that it is wrong, but you have to promise not to press charges when I decide to finally free you and your family.

[Muslim Scholar]

دحاها means Dhaha - which means: "streched"/"spread"

Arabic is much much stronger than English
the dictionary that you have is not very accurate
In Arabic any word has a source then derivatives can be taken out from this source
for example "دحية" means an Ostrich Egg
The exact translation is not extend at all

The other words that you brought are all means extend for human not make it as flat sheet
the sphere is infinity extended because it has no end.

This verse tells all Muslims to pray towards the Ka'aba (qiblah being the direction that one has to face in order to do this). This is only possible on a flat earth model. Due to the sphericity of the earth, a prayer in any direction will point towards the sky/outer-space, not Mecca.

There is no mention that prayer direction is in a straight line
Towards means in the direction of.

This thread is not about proofs it is about waging and statistics

Why convert to a faith when it cannot be proven to be true, when you previously stated that a faith had to prove it was true
you seem to enjoy contradicting yourself

No, I'm just sticking to one subject at a time

It undermines the right to selfdetermination which is a right of each and ever individual.

Built on the basis that humans are equal and therefor should have the same rights and the basis that every human being has the right to determin her lifes path by him or herself

Are you in support of slavery?

Absolutely (but only according to Islamic rules)
But you need first to understand the slavery concept of Islam
It is a totally separate subject if you want to discuss it, create a thread for it.