are vegetarians more ethical by not eating meat?

[The Grand Nudger]

Breast milk isn't dairy GC, so that one probably won't go very far.

[Sal]

I eat meat products of animals that was raised ecologically for the most part, in hopes I don't implicitly cause unnecessary suffering.

The ethics of vegetarianism and vegan fail because the collection of plants cause undue suffering to animals that come in contact with harvesters as such. Penn & Teller's Bullshit! explained this better.

Still, I mostly eat plants, in bread form, vegetables and fruit and whatnot, but I also eat ecologically raised meat (i.e. free range animals) as opposed to factory farmed animals. Besides, ecological meat tastes better than factory meat.

But I'm also realistic. Nature is nasty. The amount of suffering of animal-on-animal behavior is just abysmal. Not to mention the very nature of some animals that have their own taxonomy: parasites. Parasites cause untold suffering.

So, let's not delude ourselves, there's enough of suffering to go around - if only idiots like PETA would realize this, or do they think they can lessen suffering in how nature is? I'd argue that free range animals have a better life than what occurs outside the fences with occurrence of natural predators ripping them apart. They sure ain't using a bolt-gun.

But if we somehow can remove suffering out of the equation for factory farming, be it synthetic meat grown in a lab, or genetically modified animals that do not experience suffering or whatever, then I'd choose that.

[ideologue08]

Yes, yes, here comes the big internet guy pulling rank when he's losing the debate. You really think you can threaten me into ceding the argument? Well think again. If you want to ban me, go on haha, see if I give a shit. The only person acting like an arrogant scumbag is you, look in the mirror.

Not at all. I'm merely pointing out that throwing around insults when you're wrong is a particularly rude thing to do, and it's impressively stupid when the person who's words you're mis-characterizing happens to have to power to make you go buh-bye.

But please, continue your rant, continue insisting your "winning" a "debate" when the only tool you've got in your bag is to claim someone said something that everyone here can plainly see was not said. Otherwise known as "lying" (owing for the possibility that you just can't read, of course). I've been told that's a sin or something.

You're the one impressively stupid, who the fuck are you to go around insulting others and then threaten them when they insult you back. If you think I'm genuinely afraid of your "powers" you're mistaken, I'm not intimidated by some internet mong. You want to ban me? Go right ahead, egotistical freak.

I didn't lie. You said I'm a fanatic for preaching did you not? Take responsibility for your own words, not just your almighty internet powers (the internet is big in case you haven't noticed, it isn't the end of the world if you ban me, I'm sure you know that haha).

Keep the threats coming, you're better at threatening than debating that's for sure.

---

Preaching about it IS doing something about it

In some cases, yes, but not in all cases. For example, preaching the morality of vegetarianism on an internet forum would not be constituted as doing something about the killing of animals. Preaching to others in real life about being vegetarian is not doing something about the killing of animals.

Speaking on a subject doesn't always consitute actually doing something about the subject. At all.

I agree with you there, not in all cases does preaching do something, but it has the potential to get something done. For example, if you manage to convince the head of a slaughterhouse or people who purchase from the slaughterhouse that being a vegan is a good thing, then he might stop killing animals, or a person like that might be in the forum, we don't know. The point is, spreading the message, even to a limited degree, does have the potential for some lasting effect, whereas sitting silently guarantees that you will never get anything done. It is always better to say something than stay silent, am I wrong? I eat meat anyway, so I don't care about this particular message, but the point is, a person has to voice their values if they want others to follow suit for what they perceive to be a moral value or action.

[Jackalope]

Read back and please tell me how you weren't the one to start with the insults. The one I can recall writing ("you stupid fuck") was in response to an unprovoked insult laden post of yours.

But hey, why let facts get in the way of an uninformed rant?

---

P.S. no that is not what I said, which is the crux of the matter.

[ideologue08]

Read back and please tell me how you weren't the one to start with the insults. The one I can recall writing ("you stupid fuck") was in response to an unprovoked insult laden post of yours.

But hey, why let facts get in the way of an uninformed rant?

You said I'm in the camp of the fanatics did you not? Somebody else threw an insult at me (a person who perpetually insults with full impunity) and you agreed with them and said the same thing without any basis. Perhaps you should read the forum more often and realize that what you're getting is nothing except the modus operandi, I've had much worse insults thrown at me than what I said to you and I take it on the chin. But you have an ego problem. Just take it like a man like the rest of us or ban me. Your choice.

[Shell B]

Hey, idiotlogue, preaching is not just constantly speaking out. It is speaking in a way that coerces others or demands them to follow your path. Do what you want. Do not be a cunt when others decide not to follow suit.

[ideologue08]

Hey, idiotlogue

Nice. See here Cthulhu Dreaming? When somebody insults me I don't go how DARE you insult me!!1 I'm a mod, I'm going to kick you out of the forum!!!11 Haha (mainly because I'm not a mod, if I was I might have kicked you out Shell B So watch yourself, I could be a mod someday)

[Jackalope]

Yes, I did - and that was not intended as an insult, but rather as an assessment of your position, that one *must* do X in order to Y, when that is not the case.

---

Hey, idiotlogue

Nice. See here Cthulhu Dreaming? When somebody insults me I don't go how DARE you insult me!!1 I'm a mod, I'm going to kick you out of the forum!!!11 Haha

Reading comprehension fail.

[Shell B]

Hey, idiotlogue

Nice. See here Cthulhu Dreaming? When somebody insults me I don't go how DARE you insult me!!1 I'm a mod, I'm going to kick you out of the forum!!!11 Haha (mainly because I'm not a mod, if I was I might have kicked you out Shell B So watch yourself, I could be a mod someday)

Fat chance. Even still, you want to see someone pull rank? I'm a former admin and I play with the site owner's penis. Good luck with that. Of course, no one cares, but you seem fixated on the idea that people are swinging their dicks at you, so I figured I would join in.

[ideologue08]

Nice. See here Cthulhu Dreaming? When somebody insults me I don't go how DARE you insult me!!1 I'm a mod, I'm going to kick you out of the forum!!!11 Haha (mainly because I'm not a mod, if I was I might have kicked you out Shell B So watch yourself, I could be a mod someday)

Fat chance. Even still, you want to see someone pull rank? I'm a former admin and I play with the site owner's penis. Good luck with that. Of course, no one cares, but you seem fixated on the idea that people are swinging their dicks at you, so I figured I would join in.

Haha seems pretty much you can say what you want then... Still, that's a crude way of putting things, playing with the site owner's penis, can't you just say you're his girlfriend or something..