Why So Angry?

[Dotard]

binny, you crazy.

And all ya'll talk funny.

[Ryft]

I've read quite a number of debates in this forum and, though they are excellent debates, I notice some people getting worked up. ... I'm just wondering why that is? ... I just think we ought to keep our emotions and words in check. I think even though the debate is rational, throwing in cuss words here and there really kills the maturity.

Getting worked up is emotional, not rational—by definition. Those who are engaged in genuinely rational discourse do not get worked up, because rationality in itself has no emotional dimension or investment; it follows logically the course of sound reason wherever it leads, not angry or smug, etc., which are products of emotion, not reason. There are two contemporary mythologies I sometimes draw people's attention to in order to illustrate the point: the Vulcans of Star Trek on the one hand, and the Jedi of Star Wars on the other, both of which disdain venting passions as contrary to mature enlightenment. Being rational cannot prevent you from being emotional, but being emotional can prevent you from being rational.

That is not to say people cannot or should not get emotional. It is to say only that "getting worked up" is a product of emotion, not reason. One can be emotionally invested in something, but reason in and of itself has no emotional dimension or investment.

Religious debates never do go anywhere—and never will. And nobody is going to convince anyone. Yet we still get so worked up.

This is obviously a gross generalization, which fails to square with reality (as generalizations tend to do) because religious debates are often productive. Religious debate can, and has, led some people to greater religious maturity, some people from religion to atheism, and some people from atheism to religion. Religious debates do not go anywhere only for those with bigoted closed minds, where bigotry is "stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own." (Or as G.K. Chesterton put it, "Bigotry is an incapacity to conceive seriously the alternative to a proposition.")

[Retorth]

Religious debates do not go anywhere only for those with a bigoted closed mind (where bigotry is "stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own").

So with that said, you agree there is a chance your mind could be changed and a chance you'll become an atheist?

[theVOID]

No Acranus, religious debates fail when they do not meet a standard of evidence that allows us to discern one assumption from any other.

[Ryft]

So with that said, you agree there is a chance your mind could be changed and a chance you'll become an atheist?

At some point in the "Conversion" thread someone asked what it would take for people to change their minds. A few people responded, including myself.

No Acranus, religious debates fail when they do not meet a standard of evidence that allows us to discern one assumption from any other.

Retorth said that religious debates never go anywhere, and never will. It is a statement contradicted by a host of evidence to the contrary, as my response alluded to. In order to maintain his delusion, he would have to pretend—in the very face of all evidence to the contrary—that no religious person ever turned atheist, that no atheist ever turned religious, etc., as a consequence of religious debate.

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Edits: Added "as a consequence of religious debate."

[Retorth]

At some point in the "Conversion" thread someone asked what it would take for people to change their minds. A few people responded, including myself.

I'm not asking about "people" in general. I'm asking about you.

Retorth said that religious debates never go anywhere, and never will. It is a statement contradicted by a host of evidence to the contrary, as my response alluded to. In order to maintain his statement, he would have to pretend—in the very face of all evidence to the contrary—that no religious person ever turned atheist, that no atheist ever turned religious, etc.

I admit my construction of that statement was poor. It should have been more like "religious debates very rarely go anywhere". I apologize for that. For the record, though, I'm not trying to pretend anything. I do know of an atheist turn christian who is currently extremely religious. I respect him for his firm transition and faith but I still can't help understanding how it occurs.

[Ryft]

I'm not asking about "people" in general. I'm asking about you.

I know. And I answered, with the supplied implication of, "Go there to read my response if you want an example of what it would take."

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Edits: Added link for Retorth's convenience.

[Retorth]

Again, I'm merely asking if you yourself are willing to be open to the possibility of making certain realizations and possibly reassessing your beliefs. I'm just curious lol

[Ryft]

Again, I'm merely asking if you yourself are willing to be open to the possibility of making certain realizations and possibly reassessing your beliefs. I'm just curious lol

Again, I know. In case my answer here, and in that other thread, for some reason is not clear for you: "Yes."

My beliefs have been reassessed numerous times throughout my life, and in two of those cases it required a comprehensive overhaul of my entire belief structure. So not only am I open to changing my beliefs, but I have many times.

[Retorth]

Again, I know. In case my answer here, and in that other thread, for some reason is not clear for you: "Yes."

My beliefs have been reassessed numerous times throughout my life, and in two of those cases it required a comprehensive overhaul of my entire belief structure. So not only am I open to changing my beliefs, but I have many times.

Alright, thank you for your response. I respect that, by the way. At least you're open about it, or so you say anyways. Good on ya!